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Topic: Carter Vertical Lever not staying up |
Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 11:56 am |
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The vertical lever on my Carter is not staying in its playing position. It drops unexpectedly when playing. It used to stay up there without trouble.
I've tightened the pivot screw as much as I dare. Is there something I can do to help the lever stay in position? |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 12:36 pm
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So it has a screw vs. a tension pin? I would probably remove the lever from the hub and dress up any burrs and/or wear areas then put the lever in a vice and tighten up the fork a bit at a time until it's good and snug then re-install and tighten the pivot bolt.
If wear is beyond a reasonable pinching solution, consider some very thin washers to take up the gap.
If your pivot bolt is loosening up on you, either lok-tite it or replace the nut with one that has a nylon insert.
Best of luck! |
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Geoff Queen
From:
Austin Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 12:40 pm
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| I had the same problem way back when, and Locktite was the factory's recommendation. Worked like a charm. |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 1:31 pm
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Jerry, I'm afraid putting the fork into a vice would break it. What you and Geoff said made me think about cleaning up the assembly. That's something I skipped during the rebuild I just completed. Might help to clean up any oil or residue. Then if it needs some loctite at least it will be working on clean surfaces.
Geoff, do you recall whether the recommendation was specifically for Red or Blue Loctite? |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 2:01 pm
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It's quarter inch stock...I wasn't suggesting cranking down on the vice screw, just enough to close the gap slightly a bit at a time. That's what I did to my Carter lever.
However, if Geoff's suggestion is the preferred fix that solves the problem, that seems like the best idea.
Are you suggesting using lok-tite on the pivot bolt threads or just dribbling some in the gap Geoff? |
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Geoff Queen
From:
Austin Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 2:29 pm
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Dan: I can't remember if they said red or blue. Since you want it to stay put, I'd go with the stronger of the two (I can't remember which is which).
Jerry: Just dribbling some in the gap of the fork then wiping the excess worked for me. I let it dry before I flipped the guitar back over. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 2:52 pm
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Cool Geoff. Good to know. I'll do that next time I see the guitar.
Yeah, the red stuff is the stronger of the two. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 3:11 pm Carter Vertical & blue Loctite.
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fwiw...I've been using blue Loctite, maybe once-twice/yr. Let it cure overnight and you'll be good to go.
hp
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 4:06 pm
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Don't you have to be able to fold it back to close the case?
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 6:49 pm
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You could *consider* making a shim out of thin sheet brass, feeler gauge or whatever's available at hobby lobby, Online Metals, Metals warehouse etc. (Never done this on a steel, but shimmed lots of banjo and Fender 6 string necks with that stuff)
That screw looks like the one on the bone that sets lever travel that you don't want to overtighten.
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2020 7:16 pm Re: Carter Vertical & blue Loctite.
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| Howard Parker wrote: |
fwiw...I've been using blue Loctite, maybe once-twice/yr. Let it cure overnight and you'll be good to go.
hp |
Thanks Howard. I have some "Blue" Loctite on the reloading bench. Will give it a try.
Jerry, I know you meant just a smidge. Bad experience with a knee reverser that fractured makes me reluctant to try anything with these aluminum parts.
Ron, for this application the Loctite will add some stickiness between the lever and its mounting bracket. "Red" Loctite when you're after a permanent bond, whereas "Blue" keeps screws in place, but doesn't prevent their removal.
IIRC, it's called "Blue," but both "Red" and "Blue" Loctite come in a red tube. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 22 Jun 2020 4:09 am
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The Carter vert is a known issue, unfortunately. My own setup generally requires the vert to hang very low. This presents problems, casing the guitar. If you need to fold back the lever, there goes any Loctite bond. Plus, it exacerbates loss of friction in the joint. I ended up rigging something involving elastic bands on my Carter (out of the rotation for a number of years). It wasn't sweet but it worked ok.
And I devised a pretty simple rig using magnets and springs (I kid you not) to deal with a similar problem on a Fessenden. This worked so well....most importantly, it withstood the rigors of gigging with lots of setups and teardowns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8LKfn8XiM8&feature=youtu.be
My Williams has a custom-machined knuckle (a standard feature but it needed extra length for my guitar) that hangs the lever low but does a double-jointed foldback for the case. Works like a charm. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 22 Jun 2020 4:20 am
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| I have forgotten as I haven't seen the Carter in a bit, but I think I just close the lid down with the lever in playing position letting it push the lever actuating the change. Doesn't hurt anything far as I can tell and I've done this with more than one guitar. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 22 Jun 2020 4:26 am
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| I'm also fuzzy on the Carter. I agree that closing the lid on the lever is ok. I think my adjustments were so extreme that the lever hit its stop and still protruded too much to close the lid. That was definitely the situation with the Fessenden. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 22 Jun 2020 5:53 am
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| I had multiple Carters and never folded a verticle kl when closing the case. Worst that can happen, assuming you lower strings ,is the return spring might weaken. That said, my main guitar had 2 verticals that packed in the case without folding, which I played for over 10 years without an issue! |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 22 Jun 2020 6:13 am
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With blue Loctite I can still fold the knee when casing the guitar and unfold when ready to play.
3-4 drops, once or twice a year.
EZ-PZ
h |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2020 5:51 pm
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| Howard Parker wrote: |
With blue Loctite I can still fold the knee when casing the guitar and unfold when ready to play.
3-4 drops, once or twice a year.
EZ-PZ
h |
Yessiree, right there. That ought to do it.
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Jun 2020 3:43 am
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I haven't used this stuff yet but just fwiw.
It is supposed to not harden so that if you move the joint, it doesn't 'break' the bond.
Otoh, it is intended for threads which, in the case of the Carter lever, are not part of the situation.
However, I defer to Howard with whom I had a discussion on this very subject last week. If the blue stuff works, it works.
ps--have they fired the guy yet who put the blue loctite in the red tube? |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2020 5:46 pm
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Jon, that is interesting stuff.
Apply to the screw, let it dry before putting things together. Compared to Loctite, that's "a horse of a different color."
Their literature says, "parts coated with Vibra-Tite VC-3 can easily be adjusted, removed, and reused up to 5 times."
I've taken Howard's suggestion for my knee lever. But I'm intrigued enough to get some just to have on hand. |
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