Hands On: Trilogy TMB5 tailpiece on Dobro

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Received new tailpiece from Hipshot in the mail to mount on my old Model 45 squareneck with 0.016-0.056" strings

It was an older all-black tailpiece, not chrome and black as curently shown on website. Very sturdy unit based on 3/32 or 1/8" thick plate, looks almost indestructible, meant to be a direct replacement for existing tailpiece. The instructions included were for the electric guitar models, but the missing details were intuitive.

Had to drill the attachment hole for the one strap-button screw that holds it in place, which is probably a good design, as I didn't have to poke a new hole in the ol' Dobro. I left a tiny bit of space between cover plate and new tailpiece, filled gap with scrap leather, to avoid possible vibrations between these two components.

For each string there is a cam-lever. When the lever is pushed down against the tailpiece, it's the tightest string setting and you tune with tuning pegs. When the lever is flipped up to a mid-point stop, the string is lowered and you tune with a tiny allen wrench. When the lever is flipped again it is lowered further, and you tune with a tiny allen wrench. Stops are precise and definite, with a solid "click" as they pop into place.

Here is how I set it up -- took 4-5 tuning iterations for the strings to settle in the first time.

highest ----- D A D G B D
midpoint ---- x G x F#A x
lowest ------ x x x x x x

This gives me three related tunings, without changing the loading on the resonator very much, without any cabinet drop worth mentioning, when switching from one tuning to another.

open G ----- D G D G B D
open D ----- D A D F# A D
D6/Bm7 ----- D A D F# B D

There are many un-used settings left. The example given on the Hipshot website shows about a dozen tunings on a single guitar. I will gradually try to work in more small adjustments, but want to avoid drastic swoops in string tension that will affect tuning stability or cone rattle.

Will have to see how well it works on a gig or two, and let y'all know.

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 07 April 2005 at 10:01 AM.]

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 07 April 2005 at 10:02 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

How is the cabinet drop problem on the Dobro?
Dave Borissoff told me 20 years ago that he abandoned this sort of idea on the Dobro because it required him to add so much reinforcment that he spoiled the Dobro sound.

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

I believe the Trilogy was meant to be used on a solid body guitar.

Roger

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

My first impression is that there isn't much cabinet drop with the limited string-lowers that I am using. You will note that all of my tunings have just one or two strings lowered, not zero or three...so the overall tension on the neck and cone don't change that much. If I tried to do all of the tuning tricks shown on Borisoff's website diagram, I suspect there would be problems.

About 20 years ago, I put a Hipshot b-bender assembly on a Dobro with the extra string-lower levers. It was not as sturdy as the Trilogy unit, and very hard to keep in tune. I removed it after a few weeks. Maybe I'll have better luck this time. Or, there will another tailpiece in the garage sale.

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 07 April 2005 at 11:03 AM.]

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

When they were first introduced, they were only available for Tele and Strat installations. But since then...
http://www.hipshotproducts.com/tmb/tmb1.htm

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Even though a "slippery" nut is provided in the kit, I kept my bone nut and bone saddle to keep as much of the tone intact as possible. Will I break more strings? Will I have tuning issues? We'll see...

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

After using the Trilogy TMB-5 as set up above for about 6 weeks, I found that I missed the hi-G bass tuning for many bluegrass tunes. So, I took it off my guitar for a couple of gigs. Didn't like that either, as (a) I wanted to grab a 6th tuning every once in a while, and (b) there was a tone difference with the Hipshot -- a little more sustain and more bass response -- that was not there with the stock Dobro tailpiece.

Just finished re-installing the Trilogy on my Dobro again. This time I cut a piece of leather to go under the tailpiece to tame any potential rattles. Revamped the tuning as follows...

GBDG BD -- levers up
EA.F#AD -- levers in 2nd position
DG.E GB -- levers in 3rd position

That lets me toggle between all of these tunings in real-time...

GBDG BD-----hi-bass bluegrass G
DGDG BD-----lo-bass blues G
DADF#AD-----open D
DADF#BD-----D6/Bm7
GBDE GB-----G6, lower form of C6

There is a little bit of de-tuning that's apparent when I drop the low G down to low D. And the three treble strings are a bit floppy when I drop them down for G6, and while the strings are brand new and the cone is settling in again, it's hard to dial in all of the stops. But, I think that it will still be satisfactory for switching back and forth between these tunings in between songs with little or no fine-tuning. Will give it another round of fine-tuning tomorrow night after everything has a chance to settle in. More later.

By the way, I did not break any strings yet while tuning or de-tuning with the levers.

[This message was edited by D Schubert on 30 May 2005 at 08:27 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Pete Grant has a Trilogy on his Natiolnal dobro, and I tried it with several different tuning combinations at Drogheda Ire.
Seemed nicely in tune the whole time.

Dylan Schorer · From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

I set the Trilogy on my lap-steel like this:

G B E G# C E - levers up
E A D G B D - lever mid
D G C F# A C - levers down

This gives me easy access to the following tunings:
G B D G B D - G, high bass
E B E G# B E - E
D A D F# A D - D
D A D G A D - Dsus
E B E G B E - Em
G B E G B D - G6
D A D F# B D - D6
D G D G B D - G, low bass

I always have to fine tune a bit when toggling tunings, primarily to compensate the intonation. For instance, I keep the B-strings straight up for Open-E tuning, but tune them a little flat when for G-tuning. Though, if it's just changing one string, I'll often do that mid-song, like switching from Open-D to Dsus for a solo break.

Haven't had any problems going from D->E->G on the bottom string, though I need to use a lighter bass string than I normally would.

I plan on putting one on the dobro soon.

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

After spending some long hours last night with an allen wrench and a strobe tuner, I'm just about convinced that the big drop from G to D on the 6th string has too much influence on the other strings, especially the 2nd. Ouch! Not in tune anywhere in any key!

I think I'll have to go back to Plan A, with more limited tuning options, to keep the tension on the cone more uniform. All these tunings may work fine on a wooden plank, but not on a living, breathing resonator.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Did you buy your Hipshot Trilogy direct or did you go through a distributor?
Erv

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

direct from HipShot website.

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

On a slab-lapsteel with a roller nut this thing is very stable, I noticed the mechanism was a bit tight and sticky, requiring kinda wiggling the lever in its detent to get in "totally in its spot". This seemed to get better after it was used more.

String sticking in dobro nut and bridge as well as flexing of body-neck and cone compression would make this a much less predictable situation requiring a bit of tuning-touch-up most always. Unless you are playing for Commander Cody, in which case tuning is optional. ;->

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

I'm convinced that it's not string drag on the nut or the bridge. Here's why: If I start from the highest tuning (GBDBGD) and drop the two lowest strings (DGDGBD) I can hear the B string go sharp -- if I pluck it first -- as tension is released on the cone and/or spider and/or neck. This is still a neat device, but it does have limitations.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I put one of these units on a Stratocaster after first replacing the original neck with one of Loni Specter's "red necks". It made for a very attractive and different lap steel. I modified the neck so that the resonator roller nut would fit on the Strat.
I just picked up a Regal 45 on which I plan to do an upgrade and just might go ahead and intall a Trilogy tailpiece along with the roller nut at the same time.
I don't plan on any exotic tunings, just toggle between A high bass and an E tuning.
This would only involve a couple of 1/2 tone changes and two, one tone changes.
Erv

Craig Prior · From: National City, California, USA

Here's one suggestion that may or may not be to your liking:



Tuning						


	6	5	4	3	2	1


C6	C	E	G	A	C	E


A9	C#	E	G	A	B	E


A6	C#	E	F#	A	C#	E


A7	C#	E	G	A	C#	E


D9	C	D	F#	A	C	E








Trilogy Set-up						


Upper	C#	E	G		C#	F


Middle	C	D	F#	A	C	E


Lower	Bb				B

To my way of thinking, the simpler the better.

Craig.

[This message was edited by Craig Prior on 06 June 2005 at 08:28 AM.]

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Erv & Craig -- I think you've both got the idea -- 1/2 set and whole-step changes don't change the overall string tension on the system enough to cause any problems. But those larger intervals sure will. Not sure if this should be called "cabinet drop" but has the same symptoms.

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