6th string detuning

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

On every all pull guitar I have tried unless fitted with compensators the 6th string if it is a plain string detunes quite a bit when the A pedal and E to F knee lever are engaged. On push pull guitars this does not happen, can anybody tell me why.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

It sure happens on my push-pull guitar.

Justin Griffith · From: Taylor, Texas, USA

You might try a wound 6th sting.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

If you switch the 6th string from plain to wound, it makes the same problem worse on the other strings, especially the 5th. But still I usually use wound 6th anyway.

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

I've measured it with a Peterson tuner on two Push Pull guitars one had three cents drop and my own one had one cent. And before anybody asks yes it was cents and not Hertz. I have not measured it on the all pull guitars but it is a lot more.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I don't see why it even matters. Tune your A pedal and F lever to match the amount of drop, and aim a little bit higher with the bar when you use A+F. It will still sound in tune.
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Justin Griffith · From: Taylor, Texas, USA

Earnest,
I have the same trouble, Guess it is six of one 1/2 dozen of the other, I just "prefer" a wound 6th.
Blantons and Sho~Bud's to me are unplayable without a wound sixth string. My P/P doest "need" it but I like it and I also like just keeping 1 set of E-9th strings instead of several different gauges.

Allan,
Can you here the string detune if you don't look at your tuner?
I can on my Blanton, but not on my P/P.

It is very possible you can hear it as my ears are fried from so many sound gigs over the years.

In any case please keep us posted pal. Interesting topic.
Justin

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

Justin, I can hear it on the all pull guitars but not on the push pulls. I only put the meter on them as a matter of interest to see how much if any they dropped.
B0b if your 6th string is tuned pure JI and then drops a lot with the A and F lever it then becomes a problem.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

My feelings on this will probably make me unpopular.

No modern guitar (that I'm aware) of has enough drop to worry about. If any brand of guitar was clearly sub-standard, word would get around fast, and they just wouldn't sell anymore.

In a lot of cases, I feel this ("cabinet drop" issue) is just a convenient "defect" that players use to try to rationalize their less-than-perfect playing, or to justify their purchase of another steel.

If I can't sound like Buddy (or anyone else), I blame myself - not my equipment. But then, that obviously puts me in a clear minority around here! Rolling Eyes

Ken Williams · From: Arkansas

I've never even noticed the detuning that you speak of. Thanks guys, now I have one more thing to worry about. Very Happy

Don't want to steal your thread here but there is one thing about the tuning of the 6th string that really bugs me. I tune the 4th and 8th a perfect octave apart, with the pedals down A note on the 6th string beatless. Move to say the 10th fret and adjust the bar where the 4th and 8th are perfect octaves and the pedals down note on the 6th string is quite a bit sharp. It's been this way on every steel I've ever sat down to, although some are a bit worse than others. I use a plain 22.

Ken

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Ken, I have the observation which is why I tune my 6th slightly flat of A440 at open. Bob is correct and good advice. You can tune that out and adjust the bar.

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

Sorry guys but I didn't wan't to know about changing to a wound or tuning to the dropped string the question was does anybody know why this happens worse on all pull guitars than on a push pull guitar. I personally don't have a problem with it, just interested to find out why.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Allan, it sounds like you're making judgements about all "all-pull" guitars based purely on the ones that you've tried.

I could tell you - and even show you (for a fact) that there are all-pull guitars that are just as good (or better) in this respect as any push/pull ever made, but that probably wouldn't change your mind.

One reason I've always thought that the push/pulls might have less cabinet drop than, say, a Sho~Bud, is that big steel bar that goes across the front of the cabinet. However, I've been told by some push/pull "experts" that that thick steel bar (the pedal stop) really doesn't make much difference. As to why the all-pull guitars that you've tried have such big problems, I can't really say. I can tell you that my push/pull is totally ordinary, in that it has about the same amount of drop as my other guitars, and whether the 6th is wound or not doesn't seem to make much difference (though it does make a significant difference in pedal travel). [/u]

richard burton · From: Britain

A push-pull that doesn't have any cabinet drop is obviously out of adjustment.
The screws that hold the neck on need to be slackened, as described in previous forum posts Wink

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

B0b please close, got the information via e mail.
Thanks

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

Donny, why do I always find myself agreeing with you, I think because once again, you are right, however unpopular it makes you. I will step over to your side of the line on this [as I usually do].

Ernie Laughing

jerry harkins · From: kingsland tx

If your use to playing out of tune then it don't matter. After years of playing,I can hear the drop that I never heard before when I was a new player.
To the players who can hear the drop,they have to adjust for it or try to ignore it.
I've had guitars with 5 to 10 cents of drop, and they have been newer guitars. One was a 2004 model.
So to say that cabinet drop don't matter, and that it is an excuse for our less than perfict playing,
or a reason to buy another steel, is an insult to the players that can hear it, and have to deal with it every day. Because it does matter if you care about playing in tune. And if the guitar has to much drop, I will buy another steel because I do care about how I sound.

Jerry Harkins

Henry Brooks · From: Los Gatos, California, USA

On my 1985 MCI SD-10 the 6th string G# would drop 15 cents when I pressed the B's to C# pedal. This guitar doesn't have the welded frame as the later ones do. Tom Bradshaw added a steel bar to it. Now it only drops about 1/2 cent. So it can be fixed. He did write a post about this guitar in 2003.
Henry

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I have noticed this more on old Buds than other guitars I have owned over the years,but even with that, I never found it a dounting problem.. You can adjust..

I do notice it a bit less with full aluminum frame guitars such as the MSA and Carter guitars I currently play... Just my opinion...bob

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