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Topic: Half stop on a pedal?? |
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2007 6:59 am |
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| I know this would be unusual... We all do it on the 2nd string[E9], some have it on other knee levers, but I am contemplating adding a half stop to my 5 pedal [6th string G#-F#.. and my 6 pedal [5th string B - A]... This is basically the "Franklin pull" but I split it, and would like the half notes there on each string if I can get them without adding more knees... I wonder if it would feel weird ,feeling the half stop when trying to pull the full tone down,,...???.. I use the pedal 5 constantly, the pedal 6, rarely.. any thoughts on this??.. anyone ever put a "feel stop" on a pedal??.. bob |
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Bobby Bowman
From:
Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Apr 2007 9:02 am half stops on pedals
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Bobby,
It can certainly be done. As to whether you would like it,,,,I doubt it.
BB
_________________
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
http://www.bobbybowman.com |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 2 Apr 2007 9:43 am
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| I think it would be awfully hard to feel. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2007 11:34 am
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At one time, I had it on the A pedal. You could feel the stop from the open position but it didn't work too well when easing off the pedal.
Now, I just play it by ear. What? |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 2 Apr 2007 3:01 pm
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As far as feel, I generally play in socks or very light moccassins... Feel should be no problem,but who knows... I am thinking more about the downward pedal motion feeling like it has a "glitch" in the middle.. did that bother you when you had it on your A pedal Erv??
I would use it mostly on pedal "downstrokes".. probably never on "up" motion, just as I do my 2nd string feel stop.. I never use the change going "upward"... I certainly know how to get the feel stop by using a lower on another string[D], but I would prefer the more precise feel of a spring loaded feel stop mechanism like I have on this MSA Classic for the second string lower... any ideas where I can get something in a similar design??.. I would rather not have to resort to making one if I can help it... bob |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 3 Apr 2007 4:25 am
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I'm just now eliminating the feel stop on my P1 G#->F# in favor of a split with P2. The glitch was mostly in the sound--not getting a smooth slur over the full step, up or down. (MSA Classic.)
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 3 Apr 2007 6:10 am
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| Charlie's "glitch" is the main reason for not putting feel stops on pedals. If the stop is strong enough to feel with your foot, it is strong enough to prevent smooth pedaling of the whole step. The same could apply to levers, but the common feel stops on levers are there just to get the notes, and they are not on levers where one needs a smooth change to the whole step note. If this latter applies to some special pedal you have, then it could work, if you can get the feel strong enough to stop at with your foot. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2007 6:12 am
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Bob,
The half stop on the A pedal didn't really bother me since you do not have the feel on a pedal that you do on a lever.
In fact I have my D# to D/C# on my RKL instead of RKR. I have a better feel for the 1/2 stop moving the lever to the left rather than to the right.
If I'm not mistaken, that's the way Lloyd Green has his set up also. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2007 11:04 am
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I don't agree that the common half-stops are on levers that don't need a smooth whole step change. I like using a smooth move between D# and C# on the 2nd string, and also between G# and F# on the 6th, but I want the D and G notes also.
"Glitches" are why I've always disliked half-stops, even on knee levers. When I've had them on guitars, I'll spent a lot of time adjusting them to get the feel just right, then get on a gig with adrenaline flowing, distractions, maybe sitting a little differently, etc. and the feel's not right any more! I much prefer to split the two changes to different levers, which of course means more levers, but to me it's worth it.
I've tried half-pedaling knee levers without a half-stop, and, while if I practice a lot I can do it at home, on the gig, forget it!
But, for whatever reason, I find half-pedaling the A pedal quite easy to do consistently, at home or gig, and on a variety of different guitars. But that's just me. YMMV. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Apr 2007 1:53 pm
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If you ever played a cable guitar, you would know all about this. Early cable operated guitars (like the Fenders) had no adjustments for timing. Also, back before roded guitars go so complex, many players used "feel stops" on floor pedals. A common one was to time the 5th string half-stop with the 10th string engagement. Did it work? Like a champ! The "stop" only affects a smooth transition when you first use it, it's mostly a mental thing. After awhile, you can push right through the stop if you want without even thinking (and without anyone hearing or noticing you have one). Players today seem spoiled by things like tunable splits and half-stops, and 14-hole bell cranks. But players like Jimmy Day did very well without them!
Like many things in life, it's only a problem if you think it's a problem. |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 3 Apr 2007 2:01 pm
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I haven't actually been playing steel for seventeen years but it's been that long since I got my first one, and even after all that time half pedaling accurately still gives me trouble. Easing back from pedal down to the half tone is harder for me. It seems like you get better control if you keep your ankle rigid and adjust pedal pressure by swinging your knee sideways. Has anyone else noticed that?
This is edited to address a second issue I have with half pedaling the A pedal. ( I hope not too many people read my first wildly confused attempt to explain this  ) Here goes: I like to raise both the 5th and 10th string Bs to C and half pedaling will not result in both strings reaching the correct pitch similtaneously. If A pedal is engaged to the point where the 5th string reaches an 'in tune' C the 10th string C will be flat. I don't see an obvious solution to that problem within the context of half pedaling. That's one reason why I tune my vertical knee lever to get those Cs. ( A&B pedals down and vertical engaged) That way the 5th and 10th strings stops can be tuned independantly.
I know a lot of people use the vertical to lower the Bs to A# but I've never found much use for that change. I'm probably missing something and I'd be glad to hear about it. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 4 Apr 2007 3:26 am
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| Bill Miller wrote: |
I like to raise both the 5th and 10th string Bs to C and half pedaling will not result in both strings reaching the correct pitch similtaneously. If A pedal is engaged to the point where the 5th string reaches an 'in tune' C the 10th string C will be flat. I don't see an obvious solution to that problem within the context of half pedaling. |
On a guitar with round cross shafts, cranks can be rotated to synchronize pulls [e.g., raise the connecting rod on str. 10 by one hole on the crank, then rotate the crank back to retard the 10th str. raise].
I also like that change and had it on a feel stop on str. 5, governed by str. 10, but am happier now with a full smooth raise to C#.
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| I know a lot of people use the vertical to lower the Bs to A# but I've never found much use for that change. I'm probably missing something and I'd be glad to hear about it. |
I got lucky with the B->A# lower (RKL) as it + AB happens to render a respectable C on str. 5.
Sometimes you mess around long enough to find a solution.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Bill Miller
From:
Gaspe, Quebec, Canada
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Posted 4 Apr 2007 3:59 am
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Charlie, at times I've wondered about an 'under the hood' solution to what I spoke about, but my Carter has the square cross shafts.
Ideally I'd like to have the perfect sounding 5th and 10th string C's I get with pedals A+B+Vertical knee and a perfect sounding A# with the vertical only engaged. I don't use the A# but I'd probably have worked it in to my playing by now if it sounded good. In an 'either/or' situation I want the C's though.
Bob, sorry if we're subverting your thread here, but it all sort of ties in to the 'half-stop/half-pedal' thing. |
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