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Topic: Blues and Rock Music at a major Steel Convention |
James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 7:00 am |
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I'm fairly new to steel guitar--been pickin' away for a little over 4 years. My understanding is many feel that the steel guitar is VERY deeply entrenched in country and westen swing music. Some have commented that this needs to change for the "alledged" survival of the steel guitar in the long run, exposing the steel guitar to younger audiences, or audiences in general who simply love rock/blues over country music.
So, my question is this. How would you feel about having a night devoted to---at some of the major steel shows/conventions--- a rock and blues and jazz night---anything BUT country music for an evening? How many would support such an idea with their participation as audience OR performer?? Are we ready to color out side of the lines yet??  |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 7:27 am
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Count me in, but I need a big piece of paper and well defined lines for the crayon 
I just wrote a new patch for my Profex which is very similar to the Boss Blues Driver..playing very pentatonic with single notes I can almost see David Lindley grinning at me..( or maybe laughing )...
I think this is a great idea , I just don't know if any entire set at a steel show would be the ticket...
tp |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 7:43 am
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I'd be okay with it, but I wouldn't expect attendance to be real high!
You have to remember there's a preponderance of steel players playing country and western swing because that's where their main audience is. While there's a segment of players that may really like blues and rock, it's just no where near as significant right now. Of course, there's probably some who would say that this would change if someone like Robert Randolph were on the bill, but I believe the majority of people who go to see Robert go for the "show", and not for the steel playing, per se. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 7:50 am
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I'd venture to say the majority of the audiences are made up of the steel players familys anyways---------
Having a blues/rock night would build momentum after word got out, I would think. |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 8:42 am The line between genre's can get pretty blurry.
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I would love to hear a wider variety of PSG styles at the Steel Gatherings which I am able to attend. I however am wary of devoting a specific evening to "anything BUT country music." The anything-but formula feels alieanating to me. So I would rather mix it up and have more contrast between the individual performers on a given evening.
It could be a shame if a player like insert a name that you really like to hear got bounced from a program solely because they were only free on the night which was "excusive".
Having said this I also realize that at the conventions/gatherings that I have atteneded; many of the players are there because they want to be and are not getting paid per se' and putting together an event is tough enough without adding additional constraints.
_________________
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-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
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Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 9:24 am
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When the promoters of these shows want a younger audience, more modern music etc they will go that route. As long as crowds show up to hear plenty of "two left pedal mashing" then that will be what your steel shows basically will be.
I think the added small music rooms with alternative playing that are usually offered at shows will be about it. The folks that want to hear different playing can hear it there. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 9:49 am
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Dan Tyack's set in Mesa was some Soul,R&B ,and Blues..nobody got hurt,people clapped.It'd just notes!
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 10:35 am
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There is ALWAYS somebody that mixes things up at these shows, it seems to me...if more folks are inclined to do it on thier sets nobody gonna look down on them for it...knock yourself out.
No need for a seperate night...IMHO. 
_________________
DESERT ROSE D-10 8/5...Joe Naylor "SteelSeat"...
Gallien-Krueger MB200 amplifier through an Alessis MicroVerb w/15'Peavey cab.
TELES & STRATS...
FENDER TWIN & SEYMOUR DUNCAN 50W tube amps...1-12" 2-12" & 4-12" cabs and a FENDER MUSTANG-3 |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 3:01 pm
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Jim Stahlhut hosted a Jazz Room at the International Steel Guitar convention last year, and it was received very well. So well in fact, that it's scheduled again this year. This was the main reason I went to ISGC last year and I've already made reservations for this year. I am really not a country music fan so I really like other styles of music played on the steel guitar.
_________________
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 4:21 pm variety
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I like your idea James...I'm down for a ticket.
Just add something different and unexpected. Just a little variety goes a long way.
I played our club yesterday. I included songs like Route 66, He Don't Love You, [the oldie], Someday Soon, Brokenheartsville, All My Lovin', BeeGees...To Love Somebody, Born to Boogie and others along with some trad stuff. The folks loved it.
It's a great tune but how many ways can you play Swingin' Doors?
I don't always pull it off, but I do try to do something different each time I'm invited to play. Songs like Those Were the Days, Satin Doll, It Don't Mean a Thing, Al Perkins' Atrium, Brumley's Selah....those things that you don't hear every time.
Rock and Blues are great on steel. I have done Al Green, Robert Cray, Santana, Clapton, Stone Temple Pilots, etc. with the right mix of musicians.
In the end, I think either a person loves the sound of steel or they don't. I don't think you can make anyone like something or instill in them a desire to play your particular instrument.
All you can do is play interesting music that catches people's attention.
At ST. Louis a few years back, someone asked one of the youngsters, I'm guessing in his early teens, what he thought about the convention. He replied that he found the music depressing.
In all the years I listened to music, it took things like the steel on Byrds "Sweetheart", The Amazing Rhythm Aces, PPL, Asleep at the Wheel, Poco, Carpenters, NRPS, Cody, Pointer Sisters, et al to give me the impetus to actually go out and buy a steel and get started.
I have heard a lot of steel in the TV networks series' the last couple of years. Hopefully, that exposure will send a call to some young person to take up the instrument.
There are many young folks that like traditional country music too. You may not hear about them as much, but they're out there.
You can't force it on them though. You just have to expose them and let them make up their own minds.
Last edited by Jerry Overstreet on 19 Mar 2007 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 4:23 pm
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I would certainly like to see a wider variety of songs on the mainstage (especially some vocal stuff), instead of a constant barrage of ancient standards. Yes, I know, they're "better than all the crap that came after them", and "it's a steel show, not a vocal show". But to hear someone sing "Tears In Heaven" with Jay Dee or "Someday Soon" with Buddy Emmons would be a big improvement. That's not a big leap from what's happening now, just an update in "standards" and a small step in the pop direction. The few attempts (on the mainstage) I've heard at songs "outside the box", both vocal and instrumental, were met with a trainwreck, with one particular crash in Dallas (on a well-known contemporary hit song) that infuriated me. I felt really bad for the steel player. It's almost as if no one up there cares about the tune if it's not "Touch My Heart" or "A Way To Survive", unless, of course, you bring your own band or the guys are really familiar with your material.
I do make an effort to see the players who perform their own compositions, like Buddy Emmons who's just a really talented songwriter in addition to his playing talent. Overall, I had a great time at both the St. Louis and Dallas conventions, most of it occurring at hotel room jams, the bar, and outside chatting with people. I can't listen to the same stuff over and over. There's lots of pedal steel material that's not crusty (Poco, Desert Rose Band.....any country rock stuff) that can be adapted to instrumentals, and every vocal does not have to be delivered with a baritone vibrato that loosens the brain from your backbone.
I'm 36 - not young, but relatively young compared to the norm in the steel world. And for this reason it seems like my opinion won't hold much water anyway. That's fine. I can understand older steel players looking at guys like me and wanting to wring my neck for being so disrespectful in light of my relatively short time behind the steel.  In 20 years, though, I'll be 56 and hopefully still playing steel and attending conventions. Maybe there'll be more of me, maybe there won't. But one thing's for sure: if no one cares what the younger age groups think now, there won't be any conventions in 20 or 30 year's time.
I'm with James........a change is needed for me to keep making the long trek to these shows. A full day committed to broadening the setlist sounds good to me.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 19 Mar 2007 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 5:29 pm
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There are lots of steelers who play classic rock, blues, and some sort of jazz each time they go on the bandstand. I have to in order to keep my place in the band. As far as at steel conventiions, it was certainly done this year at Dallas.
Reece Anderson and the band he used gave everyone in the main room a lesson in how it's done and the only pedal I saw was the one under his right foot. It was one of the biggest crowds at the convention and I didn't see one person get up and head for the door. When the music is done with a super player and outstanding backup band as this set was done, I believe you could play "Three Blind Mice" or "Old MacDonald" and the crowd would love it.
Just my take but I'm one person that's really getting stiffed at those folks who are under the impression the instrument is just for Country (whatever that is now), or Swing (and I know what that is). It sounds good in both of those categories but I thought Reece threw the "box" out the door on his set. You'll never put players like that in a corner and tell them the steel guitar won't work in every single category of music, and I agree. I just can't play them all, darn it  .
I have a CD of Johnny Cox and other players who did a tribute to the Eagles and the last time I checked the Eagles didn't wear straw hats, or stetsons with a toothpick hanging out the sides of their mouths. (Country stereotypes you know).
Phred |
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Elizabeth West
From:
Surrey, B.C., Canada
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 6:57 pm
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| Chirs,I not believe any steel enthusiast, like myself would attent a STEEL GUITAR Convention to listen to singers. One can turn on their raido for that. However, you can't turn on a raido to hear guys like Buddy or LIOYD playing instruments. After the singing started on the mainstage or in the show rooms, I would just up and leave. Yes the steel is one fine back up instrument. But, if one starts to add more singers,fiddles ext.The steel will once again. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 7:09 pm
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Mike P., You must know I'm a big fan of Joe Wright. Thanx for sharing that clip with us. Wish there was more of it, though. Seems that there are just little blips here and there at the steel shows. And my hat's off to those who ARE playing other styles at the shows. As mentioned above by Phred, they were well received, which is half the battle.
I like about any kind of music if it's played well. I have my '60's and '70's ect. of favorites--country, blues, rock, big band, classical. I personally am loving playing country music on steel. Something I can relate to and CONNECT with my instrument. But as my skill level improves, I want to play whatever I get a hankerin' to play. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 7:40 pm
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Hey Elizabeth,
I obviously love steel as much as the next player, but with no vocals to break it up every now and then it becomes one big jumbled lick that keeps beating around in my brain. My favourite steel licks are on vocal albums, and I guess that's just what I like. I'm not asking for vocals on everything. The amount showcased now is about enough, but a variety in singers and tunes is what I'd like to see, maybe some younger vocalists who can perform material that is relevant to my age group. A version of "Blue Bayou" or something is all I'm asking for.
As it stands now, until I'm 65 I will sort of feel out of place as a spectator in the main ballroom of a steel convention. I think that's just the way it is. The majority of the audience is 50-plus, and wants to hear all that old stuff - over and over again. I understand that these people are the majority and need to be catered to. I just don't know what's going to happen when they all pass on. Will the steel convention as we know it evolve? It's hard to say.
Having said all that, I immensely enjoy the wisdom that the older players and audience have imparted to me in my conversations with them during the conventions. I have a deep respect for the history of pedal steel, and have my heroes that influence and inspire me. I just wonder sometimes where it's all heading, and who will keep the torch. There has to be some sort of effort made to keep younger people attending these shows and keeping the steel guitar industry alive. Even a heightened respect for country rock steel would be a start. There are innovators in that genre who have passed on without as much as a nod from the powers that be. It's really sad.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 7:52 pm
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Everyone over fifty has to bring one teenager to Scotty's or they just can't get in.  |
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Elizabeth West
From:
Surrey, B.C., Canada
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 8:40 pm
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| Chris, one should be so lucky to hung out and learn from the old Pros, will one still can.Why wait until your 65. We should be the ones paying the respect to the old Pros by continuing to keep thier torch burning. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 9:16 pm
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| Quote: |
| aving a blues/rock night would build momentum after word got out, I would think. |
Yep. And if you do it once, it will build momentum and just get bigger, which is a good thing. IT just seems like some are afraid to pull the trigger on something like this, because they'll offend the traditionalists.
That should not be an issue at all. Have the traditional stuff one or more nights; then mix styles on another night, with surprise mixes of players so people get exposed to new music. Then have a rock/blues night as well. Maybe even an experimental (thinking Susan Alcorn here) room or night for progressive stuff.
Having vocals is a great idea - 90% of steel playing is as a backup instrument, with periodic lead breaks (I'm still not used to the term "rides"); that's the real context, and to me, it's great to see the instrument played IN context - by players who know how to complement the singer and the band overall. The last thing I think most would want to hear is the same assortment of instrumentals played over and over, ad nauseum....
Variation is ALL good for the instrument. Would I spend all my time listening to traditional country only? No...I'd probably be very likely to not attend should the focus be only on traditional country playing - not that I don't have respect for the music or players, it's just not my cup of tea.
But tossing in a rock night and mixing things up a little more is a great idea. I'm sure someone will either think about or bring up the story about Buddy Cage's bass player wearing a caftan or dress or something, but my take is - so what?
It's a good thing to shake the trees a bit, turn left instead of right, and do something different. WIll some people be annoyed and walk out? Probably. But if you really think about it - whose problem IS that, really?
James, ideas like this are what get players like me interested in actually visiting a convention, which otherwise (based on videos I have seen from past ones) I wouldn't spend the money to attend.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
Last edited by Jim Sliff on 19 Mar 2007 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 9:20 pm
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Good point, Elizabeth. I really admire songwriters like Lloyd Green, Buddy Emmons, Bobbe Seymour and many others who are creating a legacy of original steel instrumentals. As a songwriter myself, I prefer that to instrumental renditions of vocal songs. In the context of renditions, I'd rather see how the steel player expresses himself in the holes between the vocals, while keeping the original vocal version of the song intact. To me, pedal steel as an art form truly shines in the context of original instrumental composition and skillful accompaniment with a vocal on a rendition of a vocal composition.
I'd better go hide now.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 9:32 pm
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| Chris LeDrew wrote: |
| to hear someone sing "Tears In Heaven" with Jay Dee or "Someday Soon" with Buddy Emmons would be a big improvement. That's not a big leap from what's happening now, just an update in "standards" and a small step in the pop direction. |
Chris, thanks for your thoughtful comments. I MO the tiny changes you suggest are not nearly enough. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2007 9:38 pm
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| Chris LeDrew wrote: |
| The majority of the audience is 50-plus, and wants to hear all that old stuff - over and over again. |
I think average age is more like 70 years. I stopped going to Scotty's show because the music was the same stuff over and over again. |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2007 2:29 am
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| One good thing about steel shows is that they make me feel young, skinny, and with a lot of hair... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 20 Mar 2007 3:03 am
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Although we all know Joe Wright is an amazing talent and does it all..
I think what James is talking about here is more than just JOE turning up the wick at shows...
Not ONE guy, how about 10 or 12 guys playing Duane Allman licks...totally fuzzed out..Statesboro Blues..lets start with that one....
IF we lock ourselves into a box , we are doing both the Instrument and ourselves a dis-service.
Last time I checked , Chet, Brent Mason, Eddie VanHalen, Joe Pass , Stevie Ray ,Duane Allman and Segovia etc...were all playing the same Instrument...
The seasoned pro's are the ones who have given each of us the inspiriation and desire to play, we draw on those guys everyday...I can go watch any of them on any given day and be totally fullfilled..but when it is my time to play, I should draw on those guys and adjust it , shake it up etc.. so it comes out as ME....many of us have roots that go way deeper than our Pedal Steel adventures....nothing wrong with reaching down and grabbing a few things from a different place and adding it to what we are doing sittin' behind the Steel.
IF a Steeler shows up at a show and does a full Blues set, I suspect at first the traditionalists will lynch the poor guy( or gal) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. Play the set and then RUN...
I think there should be a new book, page one, Way to Survive, page two..Coccain, page 3..Rocky Top, page 4 Sharp Dressed Man..etc...
shake the world up a bit...start with OUR world..
I was talking to a friend yesterday about a very fine local Guitar player who had been doing some local demo sessions. He is an excellent Country Picker..The Engineer doesn't use him anymore because when he plays ROCK sessions it's Chicken Pickin' with overdrive...
Take the Steel on a journey out of the Country once in a while ..it's just a guitar.. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Mar 2007 4:27 am
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The term "traditionalist" here seems a little harsh to me. Rockers who only listen to their favorite rock, are "traditionalist", too.
I believe, in explanation of "the way it is" now, begins in the past, where there were NOT many that played any blues/rock on steel, and with most everyone capable of playing the early steel shows, being a country artist, we as a steel community have settled into a "comfort zone" of sorts. ("If it ain't broke, don't fix it", it's worked before so leave it alone.)
We MAY have reached an era of "the need to expand" our musical horizons, to include OTHER styles of music, to enable awareness to happen, of the steel guitar to young people, which helps the growth of our steel guitar world, which equals survival. It becomes a "Way To Survive". (sorry, couldn't resist!  ) |
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