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Topic: Another gig lost to traditional country music |
Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 5:53 pm |
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| How many here have lost their weekend gig to a non traditonal country group? We had a good group doing a lot of Haggard, Jones, Paycheck, Price and on the more rowdy side we did a lot of Waylon, Hank Jr, D Yokum and had three good singers and three part harmony in a four piece group and lost the gig to a mostly r/r & non traditional country band. The place has new owners so they wanted to "experiment". We've had good crowds and made pretty fair tips too since we got the gig just after NYE but the new owner isn't into that kind of music. So how about you? Have you had to adjust your choice in music to keep a little weekend gig? |
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Dayna Wills
From:
Sacramento, CA (deceased)
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 12:40 am
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| I have found that the type of music played will determine the kind of crowd the club will draw...so what is the guy "experimenting for? I haven't played a club for several years, but I have seen how the crowd changes when the music changes. A friend of mine played at a bowling alley where a lot of young people hung out and there were fights and damaged property in the parking lot. When my friend played there, the young people left and the place became "safe." Then, the owner died and new "young" management came in, fired my friend, and made the place a sports bar. I don't know what happened after that cause I never went back. We all followed my friend to the next place. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 3:22 am
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Frank, pretty common. New owners, new direction etc..
The trick to some of this is to play across several styles if need be. We play two or three different clubs and the set list is very different at all three.
We can play James Brown if need be..but I hope we don't need to !
At one of the more Riske' clubs we cover tradtitional all the way to SRV , The Ramones, The Romantics, John Mayer, Clapton , Beatles, Stones etc..and back to George Jones... 3 of us come from a very Rock and Blues background/era so playing that material now and then is a good change for us..and fun, and LOUD....Did I say Loud ?
It just depends...
One of the clubs that we had been invited to play recently changed owners, the former bands set list was very similar to ours. the New owner decided to go with a Rock band and told them to play some Country songs in between, but he wanted more Rock and Blues. When we went to see the guy , he told us that the band he had was great, they were together for 3 months, he asked if we were as good as them ..he was very arrogant , I think we told him no, we have been together over three years as a unit and one day we hope to be as good as them.
I would stay in touch with the new owners , keep a relationship as small as it may be. You never know what will happen down the road.
keep the faith... |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 6:07 am
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I'm sure the band is great.
When I was in Nashville I noticed that a the bands I saw would have done three times as good if they had dressed like they were entertainers, instead of street clothes and tennis shoes.
It's the same here.
More later I guess, but I gotta run.
EJL |
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 7:41 am
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| Quote: |
| if they had dressed like they were entertainers, instead of street clothes and tennis shoes. |
Right on, Eric, and to that I would add that, anyway, they probably don't play the kind of country most of us here want to hear. I recently saw a joint TV performance of Randy Travis and Keith Urban, and I don't have to tell you who completely outclassed whom. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 11:19 am
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| Randy might outclass Keith, but I'll guarantee that Keith out sells Randy. Here's the story. I've won the Buffalo Music Awards three years in a row for best country/americana band. Eric (Shakespere) is right on, and I'll bet he doesn't take prisoners when he plays. First off you can't dress like a bum and expect people to pay money to see you. Anyone coming to a job in sneakers, tee shirt, worn jeans or a baseball cap should be fired. A belt would help also. You can NOT play traditional country music all night anymore and expect to draw a constant audience. The only exception to this would be a smok'n seven piece full dress western swing/rockabilly group, but even then it would have to be full dress. Moose Halls for seventy year olds playing until 11:00 P.M. you can still do it. No overweights or uglies allowed in the band. The bottom line is if you are not attracting 23-30 year old women to your shows on a consistent basis it ain't gonna last. The bands that I play with will do "Makin Believe" one second and Deff Leaopard the next, and they smoke when they do it. I have to be prepared to play "Crazy Arms" one moment and Journey the next on any one of six instruments. Blues harmonica included. If you're not putting asses in the seats no kind of music matters. If it was up to me I'd be playing Louvin Brothers, but I'm just the fiddle/steel player. I don't pay the $5.00 at the door. I laugh when people come up to me and call me a great steel guitar player. I know better. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 11:43 am
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| I'm going to add one more thing. I play the "Chippewa Strip" in Buffalo regularly. If you want to hear about the "Chipewa Strip" listen to Big and Rich's song "Comin To Your City" They purposefully talk about "those Yankees drink enough to make you drown". It Hells Kitchen. Thats us in Buffalo. If you ain't got smoke people will let you know immediately. Eric West said it. I'm there to ENTERTAIN. Not to just play music. Anyone can play music. You have to ENTERTAIN people. The music is secondary. Not in quality, but in priority. I played 3rd ave. clubs in New York City where I'm from for years and learned this many years ago. When I saw the original Temptations when I was young the light bulb went on. |
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Michael Strauss
From:
Delray Beach,Florida
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 12:53 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Frank, pretty common. New owners, new direction etc..
The trick to some of this is to play across several styles if need be. We play two or three different clubs and the set list is very different at all three.
We can play James Brown if need be..but I hope we don't need to !
At one of the more Riske' clubs we cover tradtitional all the way to SRV , The Ramones, The Romantics, John Mayer, Clapton , Beatles, Stones etc..and back to George Jones... 3 of us come from a very Rock and Blues background/era so playing that material now and then is a good change for us..and fun, and LOUD....Did I say Loud ?
It just depends...
keep the faith... |
Elwood Blues: "Uh, ma'am, we're the Blues Brothers. We do blues, rhythm and blues, jazz, funk, soul, we can handle rock, pop, country, heavy metal, fusion, hip hop, rap, Motown, operetta, show tunes, in fact, we've even been called upon, on occasion, to do a polka. However, Caribbean is a type of music, I regret to say, which has not been, is simply not, nor will ever be a part of this band's repertoire. "
If want to play, sometimes you have to be flexible. But, don't sell out. Be true to yourself. After all we play because we enjoy it. |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 2:43 pm
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| Guys variety is the spice of life and if you like or want to play Def Leopard I guess that's OK but I really didn't get into playing the steel guitar to play that kind of stuff. That's not to say I can't but I just didn't come to Nashville to play the kind of stuff I was playing before. That's not the idea! It's a very well dressed band and even in a little honky tonk such as it was. It wasn't the dress and the crowd is a 30's kind of crowd although everybody in the band is in their 50's. We pretty much built the crowd that's there right now and there was zero before we came. They hadn't had a band in months before we came. I got the gig because soon after I asked the bartender to have the owner call me she did call and said everyone there knew me and knew the band would be a good one. She sold it soon afterwards because her partner died and she wanted out. The band down the street heard about it and offered me a gig so I'll hold up there for the time being. It's not the band I had before but you know how it goes, any port in a storm. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 4:16 pm
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Well Frank, if it was your ship at the PORT that brought them in , then it won't take long before the crowd goes away...
Sad..
You know how it goes...
It took ten years to buld the crowd and 10 minutes to loose them...
I suspect that if in fact your band built the crowd it won't take long before the CLUB audience changes and the Owner realizes a mistake. Generally clubs take a very long time to recover from these things, if at all...People move on, go to new watering holes...Bands move on..go to new watering holes...
I hate it for you..
t |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 4:27 pm
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| Frank, I just changed bands after six years. What I find is that things change. I think given your experience on steel guitar you will go on to something even better. Clubs go in and out of business. I know you are passionate about playing pedal steel and that passion will land you in the right place. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 8:16 pm
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Frank - I think this is strangely common. I see some club owners filter what they think will work with their preconceptions about what they think should work, and can't even believe the evidence at the cash register. I really don't get it - do they think they're producers or something? 
Myself - I have no problem with most any style of music, and I've played lots of them. But if I'm in a country band and have to play metal to play in a club, I guess I'm gonna be looking for somewhere else to play. I dunno - it's just not what I want to do right now. Actually, unless you're trying to be a big star, I think there's an audience for most anything these days, and it's a matter of getting the right people in the right place. I go to play music, and the goal is to set it up so the people that come will be entertained, rather than try to stand on our heads doing something that isn't natural. Just my POV.
Really - it is a pain, but if you can build a crowd one place, you should be able to build it somewhere else, and hopefully steal most of your old crowd back. We did that a couple of times after getting canned - there is a certain amount of satisfaction in that. One of those owners came back to me after a few weeks and tried to get us back, but the new place was working fine. A few years later, under new ownership, we were back at the old place. You never know, eh?
These days, I think it makes sense to solicit an e-mailing list at gigs and have a reasonable web presence. That way, if the worst happens, you can at least let people know where the new gig is. If I was running a band, I'd definitely do that kind of homework, and the people I work with generally do. I find out about a lot of my gigs from the leader's emails to the list.  |
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 8:49 pm
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| Quote: |
| Randy might outclass Keith, . . . |
He does indeed.
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| . . . but I'll guarantee that Keith out sells Randy. |
Frankly, so what?
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| . . . if you like or want to play Def Leopard I guess that's OK . . . |
What chance if I can't spell the word deaf correctly! |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 8:56 pm
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Well FP I hope you didn't think I just meant "sloppy".
We have an example here in PDX. They are called The Buckles, and play LOTS of "old moldy" country, but they wear sequinned half jackets, slacks ties, and goofy lookign Troubadors type hats.
They're "loud" twangy, shrill, and they kick ass. Just like the Original Bands like Buck, Jack Green and the like. They have a good tele player, and a GREAT Steel Player, Harley James.
They work one nighters wherever and whenever they want.
Had that band showed up on Lower Broad, I think they'd have emptied the corner "country rock" place and have a full house in the middle of the week. With maybe less musicianship than the norm there in the Big N. Just more "Sic'em", visually.
I think that there's a lot to be said for "being what you are", but maybe more to be said for being five times what you are. Especially visually.
I hear what you're saying, and there is a good example of Piss Poor Club Management here I'll post some stuff on.
It's usually more that than the bands.
Gotta run. I'm really slammed this week.
EJL |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 1:02 pm
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I'd rather lose a gig for being "too Country" than for any other reason and my band (Super Grit Cowboy Band) has lost a few for that. Most of the time, we were eventually called back when the owner realized
the downturn in business wasn't all the fault of the band. No matter how good you are at any given style, the gig will play out someday. Audiences
move on.
My friend Russ Varnell has a band called the "Too Country" band. They were let go from one venue
after two dates, because they were "too country".
Hey, Mr. club owner, get a clue. How upfront do you
have to be?
I agree with the post above that you shouldn't burn bridges for the reason my situation illustrates. You will probably get a call back to the same place.
I have on occasion written a letter to the club, thanking them for their support and expressing a
desire to work there again should things change.
It works. |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 6:30 am
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James...where did you see a TV show with Randy Travis and Keith Urban?I've been playing in Randy's band for 24 years(off and on)and I haven't heard a thing about it...I must really be out of the loop.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/stevehinsonnashville |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 7:17 am
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Steve, maybe you were there, maybe behind the curtain and they didn't tell you where you were ? Did you ever do a gig where they asked you to stay on the Bus ? Maybe that was it ?
Maybe they dropped you off in Nashville, waited for you to drive away, then everyone got back ON the BUS and hurried off to the gig and got back before you knew they left ?
ya can never be to sure about these things..
tp |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 11:15 am
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| You're funny Tony.Ha,ha. |
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Jody Cameron
From:
Angleton, TX,, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 11:57 am
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Quote:
"Anyone can play music. You have to ENTERTAIN people. The music is secondary."
Hmmm.... |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 1:23 pm
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| It ain't a big deal. I've lost enough gigs to be called a veteran! I just wondered how many out here had lost a gig to a r/r band or something they call country but really isn't. |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 5:55 pm
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| Now this is funny! The former boss at the club that fired us called today at 5:30 wanting to know if I was working tonight. He needed a drummer as theirs was sick and couldn't make it. I told him I'd help him find one but it wouldn't be easy on a Friday that late. He just said he'd play the jukebox. Tonight is the new bands first night and they couldn't even find a drummer in time. Oh well! |
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Ken Williams
From:
Arkansas
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 8:37 pm
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Club owners, club owners, club owners. What a strange lot.
I've seen some unusual moves in my time by club owners. I've seen and been in situations where the where the club was operating at near "fire hazzard" capacity only to see the band "let go" and replaced with a substandard band. I think in many instances it has to do with greed. Why should I pay these 6 guys 100 bucks each when I can get a four peice band at 50 bucks each, or better yet just have a DJ. Poor soul didn't realize that about a third to half of his crowd were followers of the band. When the band left and played somewhere else, so did the followers. Used to be, some local bands had a good and loyal fan base. I'm not sure of the situation today.
I've been in situations where you agreed to play for the door, working for practically nothing at first. You build the crowd up where you're finally making good money and now the club owner wants a cut.
A friend of mine was working a club in Shreveport years ago. Their drummer,lifelong friend and room mate got into some type of arguement in the parking lot on break and was shot and killed. The club wanted them to just finish out the night without a drummer and got upset when they refused.
Ken |
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 9:32 pm
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| Quote: |
| James...where did you see a TV show with Randy Travis and Keith Urban? |
Well, now that you ask, I wish I could remember the program. It was, indeed, the two, and FWIW, Urban was pretty well falling all over himself at being onstage with Travis, and Travis, of course, was his old down home, gracious self, although he did look like the years were doing a number on him.
Come to think now, it may have been a YouTube-type website, but I tend to doubt this. |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2007 9:18 am
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| Man the new owners really know what they're doing! They didn't have a band the whole weekend as the band that replaced us never showed up! I went by last night and there was zero people in that place. The bartender was closing up at 11:30 and was not a happy camper! They had planned a birthday party for their son and didn't have a band. Haa! |
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 12 Mar 2007 8:41 pm Heads Up for Steve Hinson
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| Quote: |
| James...where did you see a TV show with Randy Travis and Keith Urban? |
Well, Steve, guess what. I'm the one who's out of the loop.
I just saw a clip of John Fogarty on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony, and a bell started to ring. It was not the clip I had seen before, but viewing and thinking, I realized it was indeed Fogarty himself performing with Keith Urban . . . and IMHO, completely outclassing him as would Travis had be been the one.
I was pretty secure in my previous understanding, but you would naturally know far more than I about Randy Travis et al, so thanks for bringing the issue up!
Regards! |
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