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Topic: Jules Ah See Goes Flat |
Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 3:18 pm |
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Jules Ah See is one of my favorite steel players. Yesterday I dropped in my CD to listen to Alfred Apaka and was shocked to hear such a great player like Jules go this flat. Guess it must have been a hard night prior to the recording. 
He goes flat on his steel intro of "Mapuana", second measure.
http://www.freefilehosting.net/download/MTIyOTMy |
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John Bushouse
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 3:56 pm
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| Ouch! |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 4:14 pm
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Yah, well it's not ALL that bad. Anyway, he still ranks up there at the top of my favorites. JB once informed me: "making a recording is like a having prison sentence...it's with you forever." I think we should give Jules a 'Pardon' on this one.  |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 4:36 pm Even the best are not perfect !!
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| I've heard David Kelii , Dick McIntire and even Jerry Byrd make fluffs on records !! Jerry once said if he made a mistake, he left it in to show that no one is perfect and a perfect record has probably been over dubbed or corrected or re-recorded several times !!!! Jules Ah See was one of the truly great steelers !! |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 5:08 pm
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How about some bloopers too?
Listen to this . . .
http://www.freefilehosting.net/download/MTIyOTY2
This one from Bobby Ingano when he recorded with Martin Pahinui. Mountain Apple Company which did the recording left in this blooper on the final mix. Listen at the very ending of the song. |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 5:24 pm Bobbys tricky ending !!
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| Derrick . that was priceless !! I counted 979 perfect sounding notes then at the end sounded like the engineer hit the tape deck , & speeded it up or something !! They obviously missed the end when remixing and should have cut that part out but Bobbys playing was BEAUTIFUL !! |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 9:25 pm
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My instincts tell me that's not Jules playing the opening notes on "Mapuana". Jules wouldn't approach those opening notes with such callousness. Barney Isaacs however, often tended to play stiff, out of tune stuff with that kind of sterile sound... My instincts tell me it would be Barney playing those opening notes if anyone? Something also tells me there are possibly two steel players on that recording and at the sour point, they just happened to converge on the same chord--just slightly out of tune from each other... disastrous results.
I think Baz Henriques would be far a better judge on this one... he's got the ear. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 10:49 pm
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| Bobby's playing on that tune sure had that"Sons Of Hawaii" sound, like Feet or Gabby would have done it |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 7 Mar 2007 10:55 pm
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I'm in agreement with Jeff.
I have heard a lot of Jules because he is my Number #l man on the steel and this doesn't sound like Jules.
Jules was more in to full chord intros for featured singers and here you have some single string picking in which the string sounds dead and distorted. Futhermore the vamps behind the singer are not vamps that you usually hear Jules play.
Aloha, 
Don |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 2:43 am
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Don,
I'm not too sure what you mean by vamps as there are no vamps or turn-arounds in this song. Maybe you meant progressions?
After re-listening again I don't think it's Barney on the steel because the progression playing when backing the singer is too sparse and limited just like Alfred's other albums. Barney's style involves a lot more playing while the singer is singing the melody, sometimes almost to the point of overplaying. Listen to Charles K.L. Davis album called "At Home" for a good example.
On this recording of Mapuana, the steel doesn't sound like a Stringmaster to me. And the tone, warmer than what Barney usually sets his steel at.
On the other 11 cuts on the album, I hear a B11 and E13th tuning used; a tuning that both Jules and Barney knew. But again, the steel playing sounds too limited to me to be Barney.
On any account, the studio engineers should have done another "take". The intro sounded horribly flat, and I don't think any steel player of that time would have said that "It's not too bad, just leave it at that".
In Martin and Bobby's case, the blooper should have been edited out. No excuse, especially for a recording done during these times. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 2:59 am
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The young HG Ambassador is quite correct.
Very careless work by the engineers and producers who were responsible for the "Re-Processing" of the Alfred Apaka LIVE recordings with Hawaii Calls.
They employed Barney Isaacs to cover up the tops and tails of the live material. Jules is in there but relatively IN TUNE.
Jules had died before the overdub sessions, and Capitol records wanted to bring out a few Alfred Apaka albums. As Alfred was contracted to Decca, all that Capital had was their "Hawaii Calls" material.
Don't blame Barney, the live material varies in pitch because of tape playback and the temperature variations when the shows were recorded. The band's relative pitch goes down as the shows progress. No doubt due to the air temperature changes etc.
If you listen carefully you can hear Barney drop out of the intro on the second half of the word "Aloha" If you count the intro as being a depiction of the line "One kiss of sweet ALO-HA"
Jules plays it all, but for some reason they decided to add a second steel part, I suppose because a lot of the Hawaii Calls material had twin steels.
Don is also correct when he says
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Futhermore the vamps behind the singer are not vamps that you usually hear Jules play.
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The parts that Jules invented for this song are being sung rather than played, so although Jules IS there he's rather subdued because of the vocal backing fills taking his lines. Barney plays his usual bits in there.
_________________
Steelies do it without fretting
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 11:07 am
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Thanks for the info Baz.
I have a bunch of live recordings of Hawaii Calls and the ones I have during the period of 1954, Barneys name is announced along with Jules. Web Edwards introduces Barney as "Alvin Kalanikau".
I'm now wondering how big of a part did Barney have as a steel guitarist in the show when Jules was there, as all of the singing songs, I hear only one steel, and it is definately Jules.
Barneys name pops up, and two steels are heard only when they do a steel guitar solo together as such. Sam Kapu fills in with some singing in this version of Wailana.
http://www.freefilehosting.net/download/MTIzODIy |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 11:33 am
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Eddie,
The blooper at the end of Bobby's track is actually Bobby playing around. If you seen him perform "Live", he likes to make all these sound FX with his steel after the end of every song.
They should have edited that part out.  |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 2:04 pm
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| Yeah, Bobby likes the bird calls, whistling at the girls, train whistles etc. Likes to imitate people too, doesn't he Bud! (2004 at my house) We wont talk about that tape though!! |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 3:17 pm
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Nice clip Derrick. If a steel player today played the way Jules does in that intro, it would move me to tears.
Good god I could never stand Webley Edwards though. |
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Larry Jones
From:
Santa Rosa, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 10:57 pm
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| excuse me but you guys sound like a bunch of old ladies. your talking about the greatest hawaiian steel guitar players in the world and i think you all better stand back and take alook at yourselfs and show some respect. and mau i don't know who you are but you should get a life. being a hawaiian you should know better. i have that record and all the rest and i never thought for once about taking it to this depth. i don't think this forum was created for the purpose of disrespecting anyone especially our mentors and our peers javascript:emoticon('') |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 11:15 pm
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Jeff writes: "Good god I could never stand Webley Edwards though."
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Well, you are entitled to your opinion of course. However, having met Web and appreciating what he did in founding "Hawai'i Calls" which brought Hawaiian music to most of the free world for some 36 years, I will always hold the greatest respect for the guy.
It was through his efforts that so many fine steel players from Keli'i through to Isaacs gained world recognition. The show itself was an inspiration to many of us 'wannabee's' to learn and promote the steel guitar. A person such as yourself who lives in Hawai'i and not on the mainland could never appreciate the kind of excitement we enjoyed hearing his voice via short wave radio every week welcoming us to Hawai'i. |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 12:46 am
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Most people may not know this but Webley Edwards was an elected state Representative in the Hawaii legislature. It was due to this fact and his legislative position that Hawaii calls received the funding necessary to have the radio broadcasts.
The funding by the legislature was based on the idea that the radio program, Hawaii Calls, brought many visitors or tourists to the Islands, which it did. Tourists have, at one time or another, been first, second, or the third greatest factor contributing to the economy of Hawaii. At first it was sugar cane, then pineapple, then tourists. Now it is tourists, some pineapple, and no sugar cane. 
The world, in the past, saw Hawaii through Hawaii Calls. Now that is the rest of the story.
Aloha,
Don |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 1:47 am
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Jones-y,
You really ought to put on your reading glasses and read though the statements carefully before making whining complaints.
Jules is one of the best Hawaiian steel players ever, and I have said so in my opening statement that he is one my favorites.
When I first listened to the song, I couldn't believe that Jules was capable of making a mistake as such, so this is why I bought this up, and Baz gave us some possible explanations as to what could have, or might have happened.
The Forum was made for open discussion and opinions so if you're going to cry everytime someone points out something, or makes a statement about something, then maybe Forums are not for you. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 2:04 am
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John Marsden has confirmed that the ORIGINAL recordings had Jules and that years later the record company re-mastered them and overdubbed Barney to cover up some of the extraneous AUDIENCE sounds on the intros and endings.
As for
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| your talking about the greatest hawaiian steel guitar players in the world and i think you all better stand back and take alook at yourselfs and show some respect |
The thing about respect is that it starts with oneself, and the use of the diminutive "i" in the above, just shows a complete lack of comprehension of the word respect.
If WE didn't respect the greats and their achievements we wouldn't be analyzing their every move, down to the last note. I think THEY probably learned what they knew by doing the same thing. (Albeit without the benefit of such a worldwide forum) |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 2:50 am
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Thanks Baz and John for the information.
As Baz stated earlier; Barney shouldn't be put to blame, but the recording engineers.
I've also said so in my 3rd response on this thread that
another "take" should have been done, and in the case of Bobby's recording, it should have been edited out.
We already know that even the very best makes mistakes in their playing from time to time, it's nothing new.
Jules, JB, David Kelii, and the rest of them could have made a thousand mistakes on their recordings, but that ain't going stop us from listening to the best. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 3:52 am
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| Larry Jones wrote: |
| ..you're talking about the greatest hawaiian steel guitar players in the world and I think you all better stand back and take alook at yourselves and show some respect... |
Sorry, but I couldn't help the temptation to rewrite your comment in English, which meant correcting you're for your, I for i, yourselves for yourselfs. 
You don't know what you're talking about. The comments to which you refer are coming from fellow musicians who fully appreciate the talents of the artists mentioned, and have studied them extensively. Do you have a thousand Hawaiian albums ? I happen to know that some of the people you mention do, and, when it comes to greats, Basil has sold more Steel Guitar albums than most of those greats added together; several million in fact. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 4:55 am
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Thanks Alan for the corrections I was too timid to make..
As for the very best in the world, unfortunately they're no longer with us, BUT, their vast repertoire IS.
As long as players like Jeff Au Hoy, Alan A, Greg and Bobby are around to carry the torch, their capabilities and styles will live on. As for dissecting their recordings, It is such a RARE occurrence to find mistakes that they're bound to be focal point for discussion. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 4:58 am
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| Larry Jones ALMOST wrote: |
| ..you're talking about the greatest Hawaiian steel guitar players in the world and I think you all better stand back and take a look at yourselves and show some respect... |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 5:19 am
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Alan you are correct about people with many, many albums. My Bud Derrick has a wall full of them, and he is intense about the history of Hawaiin music, and he is one of the musicians who will carry on with the steel guitar tradition. It's like we observe the human side of the great steel players of the past when we show they weren't perfect. Sadly, many Hawaiian musicians didn't live to a ripe old age, like Jules, Alfred Apaka etc. We were fortunate that Sonny Kamahele, and Jerry Byrd, among a few others, survived to entertain for so many years.
Larry, I believe you mistake observations of the great ones as criticism, which it certainly isn't. |
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