Question regarding bridges and pickups.

Martin Shaw · From: Wales, UK

Hi,

As a newby I don't understand the link between pickups and bridges.

I understand what the do but how do you tell which pickup to use with which bridge as I gather the spacing can very from type to type.

As I am building a lap steel I wanted to use a Badass roller bridge and a lipstick pickup, would that combination be correct.

Also where would you position the pickup, at what distance from the bridge.

Thanks,

Martin

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Well, within limits if you're usin a regular guitar bridge and regular pickup for a lap-steel, string spacing shouldn't be a problem...

Is this a Danelectro-type lipstick pickup (I'm asking since some people mistakingly also call the covered Tele neck pickup a "lipstick" - but it's something completely different...)?
Are there any particular reasons why you want to use that one? I have a Dano guitar myself, and I love the way it sounds with both pickups switched on in series, but one lipstick by itself, esp if located near the bridge, is very low output, and tends to sound rather thin, that one wouldn't be my first choice for a lap steel...

About the badass bridge: Do you use it because you already have it? That one wouldn't be my first choice either - a roller bridge isn't really necessary for a lap steel (or any non-tremolo guitar), and they are said to lose some sustain compared to non-roller bridges, but I guess it should work; if you don't already have it, and are looking for something to buy, look for something else, like a hardtail strat bridge, or a tele bridge.

About pickup position: that's a subject that tends to cause heated discussions on this forum (just wait and see...) - I'd say, it depends on what sound you are looking for - if you're looking for a thinner, treblier, classic Hawaiian sound, you'd put it closer to the bridge, for a fuller sound with more mids (better for rock, blues, maybe also country - my preference), you'd move it farther away from the bridge (if you have something like Tele or Les Paul at home, just take measurings from those, compute the values for the different scale length of your lap steel).
You might also do what I did on my first build: provisionally wire the pickup to the output jack, and then try various positions holding the pickup above the strings, before routing the pickup cavity.
BTW, if you used a Tele bridge, that would be the instant solution for that problem - if you aren't all set for the lipstick pickup, you could get a Tele-bridge for humbuckers, and used a humbucker-sized P90 (of all the regular guitar pickups, P90s are my favorites for lap steel - so full, warm, and clear...)

Martin Shaw · From: Wales, UK

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, very helpful.

So far I do not have any components but there is such a choice out there I went with what would look good on the guitar after some basic suggestions.

The badass bridge was suggested in a construction article on building a lap base.

A roller bridge was suggested by someone on this forum I believe?

As for the pickup it just looked good as the construction article listed a single core pickup.

That's another thought, why do some guitars have 2 pickups?

To be fair the more I research this subject the more I get confused as to what to us for the best.

Martin

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

About guitars with two pickups: they are simply more versatile! A bridge pickup will have more treble and bite, a neck pickup more warmth and sweetness; and then you can combine both, either wired in series (which will give you a very punchy sound & higher output), or in parallel (more common; this gives a sound with less mids, slightly hollow, a bit more like an acoustic rather than electric guitar) (I'm currently building an 8-string with two pickups, and I'm going to use a 4-way switch that will give me all these positions).

Most classic lap-steels only have one pickup (except for some National models, AFAIK), but many modern builders (Asher and Lapking, for example), offer more versatile twin-pickup-models.

I'm not sure why a Badass bridge would be recommended for lap-steel, maybe for the additional mass that supposedly gives more sustain? Generally, roller bridges ar for guitars with tremolo, to reduce friction on the saddles - and that's not needed on lap steels...

Martin Shaw · From: Wales, UK

Hi,

Ahh.. it's much clearer now thanks.<g>

That make sense, I'll go for what you have suggested as I see what you mean for the positioning of the P090 in the bridge plate.

I assume that the P90 is recessed into the body of the guitar timber to get the correct height as the bridge plate looks very low.

So the pickup would need to be recessed for the string to go over it, is that right?

Martin

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

PS: About the pickup: I wouldn't buy for looks, but for sound.
P90 pickups are used by many builders because of their full, warm sound; another popular choice is a Telecaster brige-pickup, which will have more bite than the P90; the third choice would be a Stratocaster pickup, which will have a more balanced, slightly thinner sound than a P90, with a bit less bite than a Telecaster pickup.
What style of music do you want to play? That would help in giving you some recommedations.
Where are you going to buy the pickup?
For a great selection of modestly priced, yet good sounding pickups you might want to look at www.guitarfetish.com
Slightly higher priced (but still very reasonably): www.vintagevibeguitars.com - the owner, Pete Biltoft, could give you some recommendations if you describe the sound you'Re looking for; he even has some pickups specifically for lap steel, that blade single-coil is supposed to be great.
If you don't mind paying a bit more, look here: http://www.lollarguitars.com/ - Lollar also has some pickups specifically designed for lap steel, like the Chicago Steel.

Martin Shaw · From: Wales, UK

Hi,

Thanks again for the help.

I plan to play all sorts of popular music with the lap steel but primarily country and western.

The minor difficulty is that I am in the UK for my sins...

So I tend to concentrate on the UK suppliers to avoid so much carriage and import charges.

That limits my choice a bit and makes everything twice as expensive compared to the USA.

Martin

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

You answered while I was still typing... Wink

Yep, like almost every other guitar pickup, P90s have to be recessed into the body (frankly , except for a few historic models, I'm not aware of any pickups where that isn't the case...)

Just so that you're not getting the wrong thing:

You could use a regular Telecaster bridge like this (all pics from the Guitarfetish site):

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1935_182707

with a Tele bridge pickup like this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1934_7167632

- a Strat pickup does NOT fit in that bridge;

Or you could get a Tele HB (humbucker) bridge like this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1935_1058522

and use a HB-sized P90 like this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1933_998823

(BTW, Seymour Duncan also makes great HB-sized P90s).

- a regular P90 does NOT fit that bridge, only the HB-sized one. BTW, you could also use that Tele HB-bridge to mount this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1934_5018951

or any real humbucker (though personally find humbuckers a bit lifeless in sound...)

Or you could use a Strat hardtail bridge like this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1935_987352

or this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1935_6946672

and combine it with any type of pickup you want, like a Strat pickup like this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1934_94758

or a regular (not HB-sized) P90 like this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1934_3130580

or a P90 with dogears like this:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1934_3231445

or any of the other pickups mentioned above.

With the Tele bridge, the pickup is screwed to the bridge, with the Strat hardtail bridge, you mount the pickup directly to the wood, or to a pickguard, but in any case you'll have to hollow out a cavity for the pickup, either with a router, or, if you don't have that, with a drill (preferably with a Forstner bit) and a chisel.

Martin Shaw · From: Wales, UK

Hi,

I can't thank you enough for the excellent help!

I'll check out those pictures in the morning but I will go with what you have suggested.

Luckily I am a handyman and I have a full wood working and metal working set up, so I can manufacture pretty much anything in wood or metal.

Thanks again for the help, I'll be back on again I'm sure when I get confused again. <G>

Martin

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

I'm in Austria, so, like you, I'm inside the EU, but lots of stuff is still more affordable (or only available) if ordered from the US (despite taxes and shipping).
I heard this place is popular with UK builders:
http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/home/index.php
Another place in the EU with a good selection is www.rockinger.de in Germany.
But that Guitarfetish place in the US is really fast and inexpensive, too, with reasonable overseas shipping charges.

For country music, most of the pickup types I mentioned, would work well - a Strat pickup is a very versatile, middle-of-the-road choice, a Tele pickup will bite and twang (which will work for country - the first Telecaster pickups were the same ones Leo Fender previously used in his lap steels...), a P90 will give you more "meat" and "fat", it will be warmer, and will be best if you also want to play blues or rock with slightly dirtier sounds...

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

PS: If you have a metal work-shop, you could very easily machine your own bridge...
Just use some aluiminium angle stock (1.5 cm on each of the 'L'-legs seems to work well), and file 6 notches for the strings, spaced about 10mm or 3/8", and mount it with two or three screws on the body; then you drill 6 holes through the guitar body right behind that bridge, for the strings to pass through, and on the other side of the bridge, mount 6 string ferrules (like this: http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-50206111187217_1938_12516058 ) to hold the ball-ends of the strings - that's it!
Or you could use round brass stock, with a diameter of about 15mm (1/2" to 3/4"), machine 6 grooves for the string at the same spacing mentioned above, make two holes for screws to mount it to the body, and also drill string holes and use ferrules...

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

very nice job answering the questions Roman. very nice.

I too am a budding lap steel builder. looking at stock parts I find them mostly geared towards standard guitars.
ie, string spacing on the pole pieces of the pickups.
traditionally lap steels have wider string spacing. about 3/8's of an inch. that is so to make the slant notes and chords easier to make.
another thing Ive found is that stock bridges, mostly not all, are made for radiased neck profiles.
one does not need a curve for lap steel.

since you are handy with materials and have a wood and metal shop you are set to make your on parts.

I made my nut out of square stainless steel. I made a jig and ground an angle on it. works good.

search this site for the other more accomplished lap steel builders. a lot of information is on this forum.

building lap steels is not too much fun but it sure is rewarding.

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Thanks, Randy!
I agree, with a work-shop it shouldn't be too hard to construct a bridge, and yes, I definitely wouldn't use a Tune-O-Matic or Gibson wraparound hardtail bridge, as they are radiused for regular guitar - but with a Strat or Tele bridge you can simply adjust all the saddles to the same height. But if someone has the facilitiy, making a solid construction is definitely the best way to do it.
BTW - I find lap steel building a lot of fun... Wink

Martin Shaw · From: Wales, UK

Hi,

Yes, I agree that I could build most of the components but to be safe I think I'd be better to start with to use brought components.

Until I have put one together that works ok, then I can play around a bit. <g>

Martin

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

actually, I DO find building to be fun. Very Happy

Martin Shaw · From: Wales, UK

Hi Roman,

Just sneaked a look at the pics you provided.

Now I know why a picture is worth a thousand words. Cool

Brilliant advice!! Cool

Martin

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