MusicMan Amps?

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I have a chance to get a MusicMan 2-10 100 watt combo for next to nothing. I will most likely use it for lap steel and blues/funk guitar. This one has a few issues like the reverb and chorus don't work and the tubes are mismatched.The speakers seem to be OK and the thing is in pristine cosmetic shape.Apparently from info I gathered on the MusicMan Amp forum,its slant face and power configuration place it as a later model - probably around 1985.I like the size/power ratio and they're supposed to be great sounding and very reliable amps once they're dialed in. One amp repair guy I know said they were a pain in the ass to tweak into shape and that they run so hot you have to have the best NOS tubes you can find,etc,etc. Some say an amp this old should be re-capped but my repair guy says they were made w/good caps in the first place and rarely need this fix. Replacement parts such as opamp chips and trannys seem to be available. Anyone out there have anything good or bad to say about these amps?
Is it worth the hassle and bucks to get this baby back on the road?

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I had a Musicman RD50 112, and it was great. Never had a problem with it. They were used extensively in the 70's and 80's by a lot of pros, including Robbie Roberston, Eric Clapton, all of the Hot Band, Alabama, and many more. The 210 version, from what I've heard, is a great amp. I'd say it's worth it to get it tweaked and back in shape, definitely.
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Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Mike, back when I lived in SoCal and worked at the old Foothill Club, Billy Mize had the same amp you're talking about with the 2-10 configuration and used it six nights a week and it sounded great and put out a wall of sound without being miked. I currently have (and use) a MusicMan HD-212 One Fifty hybrid which is like a "Twin on Steroids". I use it mostly for lead guitar but I've played some gigs with it where I doubled on steel and I'd just use that "extra" channel with a Boss Delay unit between my steel and the amp and then my guitar pedal board in the other channel and it sounded great. I've also used this amp straight up on a guitar gig with just the MM, one cord, and my Tele. These amps are as good or better than any Fender out there in my opinion...........JH in Va.

Casey Lowmiller · From: Kansas

MusicMans are damn nice!!!

If you can get one for a bargain, you better do it. The days of getting a good deal on a MusicMan are rapidly disappearing. They are great amps & just as good/if not better than the old Fenders.

I've been searching for a good one like this for awhile now. Unfortunately, all the ones I have seen have been in very bad shape (especially cosmetically) and the sellers have demanded top dollar for them.

I've used one for a guitar amp, but I've never used one for steel. I'm sure you'd like it.

Casey
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I forget if that MM runs 6L6's or EL34's. If it's the 6L6's then you'd do ok with new JJ's---they have a rep for being able to run hot & take it---IOW you would not be condemned to a lifetime of NOS expenses. I don't know if the same is true for the 34's.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Yeah this one is supposed to have 6L6s in it but is now sporting one Ruby El34 and one Svet CA7. A couple of others have also recommended JJ 6L6s for this amp and have said that output tubes don't have that much influence over tone - you just want a matched pair that can take the plate voltage.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I own one. 210 RD (R is for reverb, D for distortion)one hundred watts, I run it with an additonal 2x12 cab for lead guitar. I wouldnt say its tempermental or runs hot, Ive put it thru hell and it s pretty much taken all the abuse I could throw at it. It has the worst "distortion" of any amp Ive ever heard tho. Just unbeleivably bad...but hey it loves pedals. good clean fenderish tones from a guitar..I use it with my steel now and it can get a little brittle...maybe those ten inch speakers arent ideal for steel?

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I have a roughly '78 MM HD-210 One-Thirty with solid-state preamp, 12AX7 phase-inverter/driver tube, and 4-6CA7 power tubes, which are the American equivalent to EL-34 tubes - the NOS versions take a high plate voltage and are overall cleaner than European EL-34s. It sounds like you have a bit different version amp than mine.

My amp has a high-power and low-power switch, which basically changes the power tube plate voltage and I find very handy. The high-power switch puts about 700 volts on the plates. This stresses pretty much any tube out, even the NOS ones, but it is clean and powerful in that mode. Still, I generally run it in low-power mode - it still sounds good, but doesn't devour tubes so quickly.

These things, to my tastes, have a real nice clean tone as long as I don't let the preamp distort much. A little bit of hair is OK, but if I push them a lot, it gets pretty solid-state grindy. If I recall correctly, the preamps on mine use 741 op amps, so cascading high gain on those is pretty ratty-sounding. It's not completely unusable - sorta like the guitar sound on Norman Greenbaum's "Spirit in the Sky" with a Les Paul.

I think the damping factor is a bit higher than on a comparable Fender, which gives a bit tighter clean sound. I guess that can be good or bad, depending on what one wants. I've thought of selling mine at one time or another, but I always seem to keep it. I guess if I found one of the MM reverb heads, I'd grab it and get rid of the 2-10 combo. With the right speaker cab, I think this amp sounds great for pedal steel. But I can't really quite get used to 2-10s for that.

On filter capacitors - I wouldn't count on not needing to change them. On a good amp, they were generally "good" in the first place - but the electrolytic material tends to dry up, especially when they're not used. 10-20 years is a pretty good estimate of the useful lifetime, at least in my experience. But maybe you can get some more life out of them - perhaps they're on the margin.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Yeah this one is a 210 RP which means it has reverb w/a 3 spring tank and a built-in phasor - both of which are reported to sound pretty good when working correctly. It also has a half-power switch which I would most likely employ. I would just want a fat clean reliable blackface Fender sound - an alternative to a Vibrolux or Pro Reverb lets say.
If I want some dirt or other EFX I can always put my DigiTech RP150 in front of it. Well maybe I'll crack it open and take a look......

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Mike.. I will be a bit of nay sayer here.. I had 5 MM amps over the decades.. A 210 combo,115 combo, 410 combo, and 2 RD 100 heads..
I dunno, I guess they are ok, but mine ran hot, ate tubes and always had glitches in the peripherals like reverb,distortion. etc...
The 115 was a 60 watt combo with 15' with and wasn't bad sounding but it tended to distort when pushed... They all sound ok clean, but I cannot shake that very noticable SS front end... The output tubes help warm it a bit, but they STILL sound SS to me.. They sound awful when pushed into clip IMHO.. very nasty and grindy... They are ok, but I would take a Fender any day over one..

If its REAL cheap grab it,.. I sure would. It may suit you just fine,but I am no longer thrilled by them... They are what they are.. To me they sound like the old Peavy Deuce amps. with a tube power section and SS front end.. Pretty good... nothing special..I have not had great success with reliability with them,but MOST owners have...I sold my last one a few years ago and was happy to be rid of it... I promise you this Mike.. it will NOT sound like a BF Fender,please take my word for it.. bob

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

David Doggett · Posted 21 Feb 2007 11:12 pm

I have a MM RD 112. It is 100 watts and weighs 44 lbs. It plays very loud and clean for the size. It has tone somewhere between a silverface Fender and a solid state Peavey. But it has very piercing highs that I am unable to tame. If I can't sell it locally, I may put it up for sale on the Forum at some point. Some people like them.

Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

Mike,

I have two MM amps and really like them both. One is a 100w with a 12 inch EVM and the second a 50w with a 12 inch JBL. Always wanted a 2-10 model but never came across one at a fair price. If it's steal and in good shape as you say buy it now! Ha, if you don't like it you could sell it to me. Smile

Jeremy Steele · From: Princeton, NJ USA

I have a 2x10 MusicMan but it is the 65 watt version. It is 30 years old and I have played everything under the sun through it (including bass). The only maintenance it has gotten in all that time is a cap job, and I'm not sure it really needed even that. I think they are great amps, and I would grab it.

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

MJ,
The MusicMan line of amps are all pretty good sounding amps...As Dave M. said, they are more along the lines of a higher powered Twin ( Silverface ) than the Blackface tone...Still a GREAT tone for pedal steel ... More clean headroom so you can really turn it up and still be clean ... I like them just fine for pedal steel ...Not a great sounding lead guitar amp, but for a clean guitar tone, they're really pretty hard to beat , especially for the $$.... At least if you are spending the $$ to have this amp done right, you know what you have, and it will last you a good long time ...I don't know of too many dead MusicMan amps !!.... Good bang for the buck too !!....Jim

PS...Hope all is well by you !!...

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Well I'm not a hard rock guitar player so the sound I'm going for would range from a clean hi-fi George Benson jazz box tone to a clean but snappin and poppin R&B funk/blues tone w/a Strat w/minimal EFX (think Robert Cray). If it finds service as a viable amp for my Stringmaster or coffee house size pedal steel gigs that would be a nice plus. Is there any point in putting heavier duty speakers in there? The stock ones seem decent.

Lefty · From: Grayson, Ga.

I have three Musicman's, all the HD-130 models, (2) 2-12 models and (1) 4-10. Mine have been great amps. I bought one new back in the late 70's and the other two are used. I believe I had each 2-12 in for minor repairs once. I personally like the sound. I run the treble on about 3 1/2 though. I use them mostly for 6 string, but have used them for Steel as well, but prefer a 1-15. They are well constructed. I have never owned the model you refer to, but played through one and it was great. Good luck, I don't think you will be dissapointed. I own many Fenders too, but the Musicmans hold ther own.
Lefty

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Your call on the speakers ...See how they sound ....Don't expect miracles from 10" speakers for pedal steel ...For poppin, spankin, Fendery, Funk, they'll work just fine .... You should be able to get away with low powered gigs on pedal steel , but not a huge bottom end .... The MM amps take to pedals very nicely , so if there's something you want to add effects wise, they handle pedals in the front end just fine ...Jim

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

I dunno about the "takes pedals great" stuff with these amps... Maybe modulation effects, but any overdrive reinforced that SS front end sound... I could be all wet here, but all this MM love confuses me... I still say that SS front end was a tone killer... bob

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I'm with you, Bob. To me the Music Man amps I've played through didn't have the warmth of all tube amps like fenders. They sound brittle to me. IMHO it has the weaknesses of SS amps combined with the weaknesses (weight, maintenence) of tube amps.

Now when you crank the heck out of these amps (volume 6 or above) they can have a really cool rock and roll sound when you get the power tubes to start compressing. But for clean sounds, they never have done much for me.

As with everything it all depends on what your ears are listening for.

David Doggett · Posted 23 Feb 2007 12:21 pm

I'm with Bob C. and Dan. And I would think the 10s would accentuate the brittleness of the MM tone. I too love Robert Cray's tone through 10s, but he's playing a strat through an all tube amp. The tele player in my blues band sounds great through his Vibrolux with two 10s. But my pedal steel sounds piercing and harsh through his amp. It's not just about the low end, 10s make the highs sound too piercing to me on steel. I can fiddle with the amp EQ all I want, but I can't get 10s to sound as good as 12s or 15s on steel.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I don't know about the 10" thing, they can sound good. One of my favorite cabs has a JBL 12" (E120) and 2X10" THD 10" speakers. But it's probably the combination that I like.

It also probably depends on the amp and the 10" speakers. One of the best tones I have ever gotten on lap or pedal steel was sitting in with the Derek Trucks band using his 'spare' 66' Super Reverb. That was one killer amplifier!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

The 10" speakers in my HD-210 are very heavy duty, I can't imagine wanting more clean than this thing delivers. I have actually thought about pulling two output tubes and putting a pair of lighter-duty 16-ohm speakers in parallel to soften it up a bit. But I also like the as-is snap for clean country, funk, and I even agree, a clean archtop sound. I'm not so sure about blues, but perhaps with the right guitar.

I find compression and delay real useful for mine. The compressor keeps the signal from hitting those op-amp preamps too hard, and appropriate very minimal delay helps soften it a bit.

Another thing - I'm not sure about the input impedance on these. I often find solid-state preamps have a low value, which may be why I like the effects, as a high-input-impedance, low-output-impedance buffer.

OK - I just looked at the schematic - it's capacitively coupled like a Peavey, and it looks like the AC input impedance is around 220 KOhms, pretty similar to something like a Nashville 112. So that is definitely a bit low, as compared to the typical old Fender, which is more like 1 MegOhm = 1000 KOhms. I imagine that's one of the reasons I like the effects.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

MM's are nice amps if you like squeaky-clean sounds, can afford top-line NOS tubes, and don't mind a LOT of treble.

What they are NOT are blues amps, even with a pedal. You just can't get a decent overdriven sound - it's impossible to drive the SS preamp into anything other than ragged clipping, and the power section can't be driven hard enough to break up, due to the preamp's gain structure, until you are at ear-destroying volume. Pedals don't work like they do on tube amps; an overdrive pedal with a tube amp is meant to drive an already hard-driving amp into breakup. But with this, all you'll get from a pedal is a raspy, fake sounding distortion without warmth.

It's a one-trick pony.

When the preamp transistors fail (which they all do at some point, noticed by a loss of punch and an increase in hiss) they are not cheap to have repaired.

But again, the worst thing for anyone other than an Albert Lee emulator is the tone - it's one sound, with an eye-stabbing amount of treble. It takes a really good player to control it, and there is NO way to warm it up much.

This amp also makes me real nervous - it's a 6L6 model and has EL34's in it, which draw a ton more heater current. It could have strained the amp quite a bit over time. I'd be very concerned with transformer condition.

As said before, these amps sound nothing like Fenders other than the dreaded ultralinears. If you want clean and treble galore, they can be useful - but don't plan on either a waide range of tones or let the low selling price fool you - they're expensive to maintain.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Hmmmmm....

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