fine

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

since the advent of popular music as a recorded marketable resource, music has always had rotten patches which overlap constantly with periods of excellence.

for the most part it's all about people's use by date in regards to taste, who knows what I'll be moaning about in twenty years when I'm in my late 50s.

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

okay, this was supposed to be a reply not a whole new topic.

on various forums I keep seeing posts about how bad things are, how they're changing, and it's always for the worse according to the doom-sayers.

My thing is, as popular mediums doo wop died out in the 60s, west coast twang in the 70s, outlaw in the 80s, countrypolitain.. well that still kind of exists, so many genres have moved on and have been absorbed into what we have now, like it or not it's just funneling and channeling certain aspects of previous styles.

Otherwise we'd still be listening to string bands and dixieland jazz, which is fine, but if evolution didn't exist western swing and R&B, soul and chicago blues would never have happened.

The music world did not die after glam rock, bubblegum rock, the nashville sound string and backing singer boom, ballad metal, 50s teen idols, disco or the new romantics.

So don't sweat it, we'll survive the idol shows.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Agreed, Jason.

Music -- and culture in general -- is constantly changing, taking in new ideas and "forgetting" older forms.

Even when older ideas are recycled and repackaged as "new" (or sometimes just labled "retro") they're not really the same as the original.

Nothing ever stays the same forever, and change is the only contant. This is neither good nor bad. It just is. So, we shouldn't feel cheated when the inevitable change occurs.

Which is to say, if you love a certain musical style that is no longer in fashion, don't think its the end of the world. By all means, play what you feel and keep listening to the old tunes. Keep the flame alive for the benefit of those who haven't heard it, because there's a place for that in the world too. Just don't fool yourself into believing that the ongoing morphing of musical styles represents a breakdown of all that is Just and Good.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Jason,I call it "American Midol"..Stu Laughing

_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

Stu, I know what you mean, but having worked for a label that enjoys total pop success and an Australian Idol artist I've actually seen a fan base of people who quite simply dig that sort of thing, I'm kind of confused, but unlike me they don't want to dig out some obscure soul record, hillbilly or psyche country masterpiece. They don't care about Porter Wagoner or Love, they like that stuff which at times makes me want to jump off of a tall building.

Some of these idol fans will go on to explore other stuff, I suspect most won't, but some will.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Jason, I'll have to agree with you on this one..... Music, like anything else, constantly evolves. I hear gripes all the time about the lack of "traditional" country music out there. What exactly is traditional country? To me, that'd be the original Jimmie Rodgers, the Carter Family, the Delmore Brothers, Roy Acuff, & people of those eras. Sure, there's a lot of today's country music that I don't like but on the other hand, there's a lot of it that I do like. A lot of folks slam Toby Keith and/or Trace Adkins or artists like that. As far as Trace, I don't like Honky Tonk Bedonkadonk or whatever it's called but I love "There's a Girl in Texas" and some of his other things. Toby's recorded a bunch of things that I really like as well as other artists. Brad Paisley is great IMO for tunes like "We Danced" "He Didn't Have to Be" and he's also a smokin' guitarist. I listen to the classic country channel on cable which plays songs back to back 24/7 and I think I could listen to the local "new" country station and I'd probably hear more steel guitar and fiddle on there. I love all types of music (except Rap, I just can't get into that) and there's some good, some bad. To me it's just music, if someone likes it and enjoys it, then it really can't be bad, can it? Music is to be enjoyed and hopefully stir your emotions a little........JH in Va. (Formerly SoCal)
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chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

My band leader and I were talking about how everything in the business has changed, and we can bitch and moan about how much better it used to be, or we can just get on board, because it's not going back.

By the same token, I have a hard time listening to the radio, when I'm out in the shop, because I want the music to be about music (keeping in mind that pop music is primarily about identity that uses music as its medium) when in fact, it's only about providing entertainment and attracting the demographic that the advertisers want to reach. Radio and tv are about selling advertisements and not about cultural stimulation.

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

I hear that the US charts are partially based on radio play, if that's true then it offers a truly unrealistic representation of what is out there and what's actually selling, however true or not, I'm getting off topic here.

I always feel there's work for retro players, I mean how mant dixieland jazz gigs are there out there, I grew up in a town of just over six thousand and a few years back I went to a wine tasting-jazz fest (sheep farming and wineries are earners in the wimmera, at least in my old neck of the woods) and couldn't get over how many dixieland combos were there, plus I hear there's gigs around L.A. for said genre.

Bluegrass is possibly one of the big sub-genres that made it big, faded as a commercial force, a few mutant commercial strains have popped up and charted, but overall it's become a tradition style that has lived on.

Rerto-twanger bands have made a niche in the Americana / al-country part of the music market, and realistically that's something that should continue as a sub market for years to come.

As Jerry and others be fore in similar topics have noted, trad country is in itself depends on each person's concept of trad, some folks thin that electric instruments killed the old timey sound, others like the Anita Kerr Singers and big Nashville strings, some Hag, some for Porter or Mr. Jones, hell... I've noticed that in some cases Johnny Paycheck's 60s and 70s recordings have a different set of fans.

As Chas has noted, commercial radio is essentially just that.
Commercial.

It's like switching to a porn channel and complaining it's full of smut.

Smaller stations and specialist shows are about all I want to here, although working for a label that does a lot of new indie, pop, hip-hop, rap, electronica, rock, etc I kind of tend to listen to more contemporary stuff than the average joe, sure I have faves from my youth, some of it makes me cringe, other music I'll love forever.
I look at my baby boomer parents and where their record collection chronologically ends, mine hasn't hit the wall yet, and I think that's become something of the future as well.

Yes, teens and kids are buying records, but people are buying newer artists as they get older, most labels have figured out how to cash in on that.
Find artists who sound kinda retro, but with a new twist, and before you know it, Ka-ching... it'$ grammy time.

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

"...I hear that the US charts are partially based on radio play, if that's true then it offers a truly unrealistic representation of what is out there and what's actually selling, however true or not, I'm getting off topic here. "...

Jason, the Billboard chart, the one most industry people use is based on actual 'spins' that a single is played. In other words, each time a single gets played, its spin is detected and recorded from "reporting" stations around the US of A. These reporting stations are in the top 150 most populated cities.

CD sales; single and complete recorded CD's are reported from the actual "Point of Sale" or "POP". Each time a CD is sold, from a store that is a SoundScan reporting or tracking store, its sale is reported, that is how the sales figures are developed.

Chart position and sales are very acurate numbers reported from Billboard and SoundScan on a weekly basis.

There was a time as late as the early 1990's when the numbers were "inflated" and the industry demanded a better system and this is what was developed and is used today.

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

no wonder payola was so big, it makes so much more sense now.

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

Jason,
Payloa can be present in several forms and not just a cash payoff. Most of the payola was happening in other formats other than country. A lot of Urban and Pop formats were on the take.

One form of a non-cash payola example from an indy promoter could be; a program director and his wife/girlfriend would fly to a football game, have game tickets, be put up in a 4 star hotel and taken to dinner. A nice weekend all expense paid from the indy promoter and the programmer never accepted cash but did take advantage of an opportunity. The programmer would know that the next week he would have to 'help' the indy promoter with adding a single or helping a single get to number 1. There are a lot of other examples but too many to list here.

The payola guys were mostly from the indy promotion people - hired guns - if you will. Hired by the major labels to get records played no matter what the cost - or request from the radio programmers. This way, the major labels were seperated from the dirty mess and untouched. The major labels payed the indy promoters a lot of money as payment for their services and turned their heads to their dealings, and in return, the indy promoters "made things happen."

Because the country format was never a huge money maker; at least not like it was in the early 90's, country was not as bad as other formats that produced a lot of revenue like Pop music where most of the payola lived.

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

yes, I'm familiar with the concept and different formats and potential forms of payola.

I'm actually physically repulsed by this actual spins policy, and the fairly simple ways it influences the charts, to me it's a process of sales, anything else is... a joke.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

We wanted to get played on one of the local LA stations and were informed that the "slotting fee" was $6000/mo, when a slot opens up.

I'd wish I could say that I'm deeply offended that that's how it works, but my naivete' was pretty well extinguished after the "60's".

I have a friend who manages a band that played a Clear Channel event for free, and was overjoyed to be in a position where they could do that. And quite frankly, we would have done the same. I have ideals for the art world, but in the pop world, I don't mind whoring around.

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

yeah, we get those sort of 'free' exposure gigs over here, I'm familiar with them and have been involved with some to a certain degree.

I'm still blown away by the whole US system... of course we have our own chart woes over here.

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

In the mainstream music business, sales is everything. Art form is another subject.

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