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Post new topic String 6 - compensator w/A pedal?
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Author Topic:  String 6 - compensator w/A pedal?
Paul Brainard


From:
Portland OR
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2007 12:41 pm    
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Maybe someone can help me out here. I have a Shobud S-12 (3-raise, 2-lower) probably a Pro I (serial# looks like 1979). My 6th string detuning is horrible with the A pedal down - like 15 cents or more! It seems like it has gotten worse over the years, or maybe my ears just got better. Not only does that open string wreak havoc but the A pedal pull is either in tune with B pedal down and sharp by itself, or flat with B pedal down and in tune by itself.

I'm trying to figure out if a compensator could be put on there that would work with the G# - A raise, but I think since it would be a smaller raise than the pedal itself it wouldn't be able to affect the changed note, only the open string. Is this correct? I already have the split-tuning compensator for lowering to F# & G, but that works because it's a drop.

Or are there any other culprits I need to look for? It doesn't seem to be a burr on the changer finger since it returns consistently, although I will say the pull to A isn't very stable and seems to settle in after playing for a while.

Thanks y'all!
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Bill Moore


From:
Manchester, Michigan
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2007 2:53 pm    
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Hey Paul, you need to have another bellcrank/rod operating with the A pedal (5th string) pulling the 6th string to to the correct pitch. I'm not sure about your guitar, but it's easy to hook another rod to a raise hole for the 6th string, and tune it to raise the 6th slightly at the same time the 5th is raised.
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2007 3:09 pm     Step one...
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First, see if the problem is in the changer/nut/keyhead, or in the cabinet itself. Remove the A&B pedal rods and activate the A&B pulls by just pulling on the pullers with your fingers. (Kneel at the tuning-key end of the guitar to do this, with your chest against the cabinet-end.) Check the amount of drop with your tuner compared to activating A&B with the floor pedals. This will tell you if the problem is in the changer/nut/keyhead, or in the body itself.
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Paul Brainard


From:
Portland OR
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2007 6:53 pm    
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Thanks for the suggestions - Bill, the thing I'm wondering is whether this will also correct the 6th string when raised by the B pedal - it will tune up the open string, but that correction will not be added to the pedal raise, will it? The B pedal will just raise it the rest of the way to a pitch that is either in tune with A pedal down or in tune without it down. Or am I wrong?? I guess I can try it and find out. . . looking for some parts now. .

Donny, that's an excellent thing to look into.

Another thought, should I tighten up my return spring on that string? Maybe that would help.
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Bill Moore


From:
Manchester, Michigan
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2007 8:36 pm    
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Paul, the extra pull rod is tuned to only raise the 6th back to G#. When the B pedal is down, the 6th will be pulled up up A. So the extra rod only works when the A pedal is used by itself.
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2007 9:04 pm    
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Hi Paul. Wow! 15 cents is a lot. I don't believe tightening the return spring will be of any benefit in a raise situation. If the keyhead or other component is loose, it could cause an abnormal amount of detuning.

Bill's info is right on concerning the compensator rod.
I've been using this method on my guitars for several years.

I cheat a little, since the 5 & 6 bellcranks are so close together.
Rather than installing another bellcrank, I hook the new comp. rod from the changer [6R] to the existing bellcrank on the A pedal 5th string raise. The crank hole nearest the body is sufficient and it's barely noticeable in pedal feel.

When you get it installed, try this combo. Pick strings 4R, or 8R..with 5A and 6. [Say, like a G or any other chord up three frets from no pedals.] It'll make you smile, I promise. Cool
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Charlie McDonald


From:
out of the blue
Post  Posted 29 Jan 2007 6:15 am    
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I cheat like Jerry. Works great.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons
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Paul Brainard


From:
Portland OR
Post  Posted 29 Jan 2007 7:40 am    
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I do it too on my F#/G split. . .Glad to know I'm not alone!

But on my G#-A raise, sounds like you're saying the only thing to do is get my steel rebuilt by Duane Marrs? Well, if there's no other way. . .

ps I do use that 3-frets up voicing a lot so I'll go ahead and put on the comp. Thanks for the help!
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Earnest Bovine


From:
Los Angeles CA USA
Post  Posted 29 Jan 2007 8:56 am    
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You can eliminate most of the problem on the 6th string by using a wound string such as .022w, instead of the plain string. I usually do this on most of my steels, and not only is the pitch more reliable, but also I think it sounds better.
There are a couple of disadvantages to using a wound 6th string. One, it is harder to mash the pedal. Two, it makes the cabinet drop problem a little worse on the other strings, especially string 5. In other words, using a wound 6th string moves the cabinet drop problem from string 6 to string 5. But overall the pitches are better for me using the wound 6th.
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richard burton


From:
Britain
Post  Posted 29 Jan 2007 11:21 am    
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Earnest has beaten me to it, a wound sixth is mandatory on all my steels, it solves two problems in one go, ie tonality and intonation issues.

The downside of using a wound sixth on a Sho Bud is that the changer may not handle a full-tone drop.
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Paul Brainard


From:
Portland OR
Post  Posted 29 Jan 2007 4:17 pm    
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I'll give it a try - thanks all!
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