The Sloppy Problem

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

I can't think of many things that exceeds the problem of playing sloppily. Many times a simple change of technique will correct much of the stumbling through melody lines. By simply going on the offensive, and reshaping the approaches to catchy one beat, 3 tone melody lines, a new dimension of accuracy can be realized. I've enjoyed removing the sloppy from several quick change melodies.

Dale Lee · From: Down Yonder

Bill,

I always read your posts with much resulting edification, but I couldn't quite grasp your meaning in this post. Could you elaborate a little bit? Please keep it elementary if you can, because I am still a beginner with only one year working on A6 lap steel (if indeed your remarks also apply to non-pedal instruments).

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I think that Yoda is saying that it is better to play something very simple cleanly and accurately than to try to emulate your favorite steel players, attempting all kinds of fancy stuff that you don't yet have the technique to pull off cleanly. And even if that's not what he means, it's worth considering! Smile

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Dale Lee, thanks for the inquiry, and Jim C., for the assistance. If this thread survives the wave of unrelated responses, while bobbling about in a conglomerate of interesting posts, perhaps helpful information can be shared. Dale, I found that mingling and mixing technique with other players is one of the better approaches to better learning. Instruction books should be a prerequisite in the early stages of learning techniques; as well. You caught me off guard by introducing a different tuning than I truly focus upon. I had built a single 10 steel about 2 years ago, and it was tuned to a 6th tuning. It was lightweight, no pedals, and volume to spare. Mounted on an unique stand, it was more fun than one can imagine. I spent many hours trying to play songs that were not difficult to play with knee levers and pedals. As it turned out, the daughter of a "steelie" wanted to buy it for her dad. I knew the man quite well, and she wanted to cheer him up at Christmas Time. Diabetes had put him in the hospital a number of times for treatment of his feet and ankles. The "straight" steel was the next best thing to pedal steel to get in some practice. Dale, some melodies are difficult to manage when making comparisons of pedals versus no pedals. The workload is tripled should an attempt be made to rival the knees and pedals. This may be viewed as a plus by those who have pursued an assigned purpose to achieve better control of bar movement. If you've had no experience with the E9th chromatic tuning, we'll be speaking different "languages". I, for the most part, have been captivated to a much greater degree by the 9th tuning.
I've a long road ahead, since I'm strictly in the lay category of players. Advancements on the steel guitars can prove to be elusive, and rigid practice routines help to achieve goals in reasonable time periods. An example of what this thread is driving at, would be, listening to The Wilburn Brothers sing "Trouble's Back In Town", and then go to the steel and play the melody that matches that of the song, with no minor variances.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Focus, chairtime, and more focus. (Sorry for rambling on, I'll try to get to the point next time.)

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

James M., I try to avoid ramblings that do not pertain to the business at hand. Human nature is much like snowflakes that differ in shapes and design. For some reason differences in opinions evolve due to the lack of physiological likenesses. Influences brought about by parental upbringing, are reflected in conjectures, and various reactions that make it possible to characterize an individual. This is the essence of serious practicing.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I thought it was the essence of individuality. Silly me.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

My answer pertains exactly to the question at hand. At least to how clear I feel you asked it.

I find for me, my playing gets very accurate if I focus, and put in a lot of chairtime. That's what works for me, That way, also, I do not find myself trying to play beyond my ability. I find my limitations and define my boundaries, and try to expand those boundaries. Meanwhile I play (live gigs) what I can play correctly, without compromising technique. Cool

Dale Lee · From: Down Yonder

Bill,

Thanks. The last sentence of your reply was especially helpful. I am acquainted with that beautiful song, and it will be a subject for my future practice.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Dale, Trouble's Back In Town is a catchy melody with lots of appeal. The lyrics carry meaning for anyone who has experienced a similar life situation. I've always been partial to the Louvin Brothers' harmony, and followed by the Wilburn Brothers. Years ago, WWVA Radio, with 50,000 watts, in Wheeling, W.V. would feature both harmony teams. Good luck in your practice sessions.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

James, your reply is quite impressive, as it is indicative of a well motivated musician. My only regret is the remote chance of meeting some of the players on the forum. If their playing is on the same level as their posted replies, I'm missing what could be the best of experiences.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Thanx Bill, but I don't claim I can play. I just stated my approach to my maddness. I'm just a beginner, tryimg to sort it all out, too. I figured most everybody does about the same---nothing to be impressed about really. Wink

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

I cant imagine you playing sloppy your typing Bill is that of a knowledgable perfectionist....

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

A.J., thanks for the kind words. I've been shot down a few times in my day. One female intellectual summed up my potential by saying to a dear friend of mine, " He just has surface intelligence." High society can blister the hopes of a simple country boy. Common sense is another matter. It is not acquired in higher education.

Bill Duve · From: Limestone .New York, USA

Hey Bill H
Funny you picked that tonite, I had just tried to stumle thru a couple fairly complicated Stonewall J songs and went back to basics single picking , then I look here and it seems you were watching me heee-hee...I've used a lot of youre advise at times, none ever bad so keep going.

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

Hello Bill,
I shall not attempt to pastiche your use of the extended language codes as some people do. I keep that for my academic work, since I believe that expressing complex ideas in simple language is the mark of a good teacher.
I'd like to point you in a different and unusual direction in your attempt to cut out sloppiness.
You need to learn how to programme music in a sequencer programme on computer.
As a playing musician, especially one trained in sight reading, you learn to play the notes where they are written. Listening to music by great interpreters of music, you might believe that they are doing the same- but they do not. There is a musical term "rubato". The jazz/pop terms swing and groove have the same meaning. Notes are played, not where they are written, but where they ought to be in artistic and interpretive terms.
You may be lucky, and maybe your mental clock was programmed in millseconds from birth- but it probably was not.
However, if you start working with computer music, you soon learn that two patterns may be at the same tempo and in the same time signature, but they do not fit together.
As a drummer would say , they Flam.
With experience, you can learn to hear as separate sounds, two notes which are only five milliseconds apart.
Having trained your ears and brain to this level of precision, you then sit down at your guitar.
You only have the fingers to teach, and you have the perception to know the difference between "feel" and "sloppy", and the freedom to explore and use Groove in your playing.
It is down to milliseconds!
Fire up your computer, friend, and learn the secrets of groove.
Cheers
Dave

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Mr. Boothroyd Sir, 'Groovey', spoken like a true devotee of professor Stanley Unwin, with a tinge of Billy Connollyisms thrown in for good measure, methinks.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Concentration is a learned skill, as is playing in tune, blocking, how to get tonal variations with your hands alone, etc. Improvising on the fly is a learned skill, as is sight-reading, playing well under adverse conditions, being able to lift a band by fitting yourself to their conception of music - then warping it; etc. It does seem as though starting very young gives people a head start on managing their own mental state to play cleanly and accurately at all times. I know that I am one of those people who can play much better at some times than others, but I'm working on that, specifically. I've read a lot of musician's biographies and at least in the classical world, they largely tend to most admire other musicians who can play well in all mental states and conditions, rather than the brilliant flash-in-the-pan who tanks every other night. Musical concentration is an exceedingly wierd state, if you think about it - imagine trying to describe the notes you're playing, at speed? Shocked

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Bill D., I had written about The Wilburn Brothers to Dale Lee, as I was hoping to give an example of what pleases me in country music. The melody doesn't feature one of those catch me if you can, chord nightmare songs. It just takes more than a few minutes to work it out on the steel guitar. It's a little more difficult on the 6 string guitar, while trying to put the same feeling into the song. There is another song by Porter Wagoner, that was recorded so well, that there's a challenge in trying to add it to the list of accomplishments. The recording entitled, "Carroll County Accident" is a fine example of what happens when a true artist puts his touch to work. No negative uprousing can be said about the professionalism involved in that particular recording. The two songs I've cited are among dozens of selections, that I feel, stand out when making choices in entertainment. Going back to the business of "Sloppy", perhaps to suggest that sloppiness can be found in many places of our daily lives, may appear offensive. If so, drive to the nearest parking lot of your city or town. Cast your eyes about. What do you see? Litter strewed everywhere, is what you'll see! I wonder, how sloppy can a person be who throws garbage along pristine lawn frontages. The sad part is when volunteers are seen cleaning up the litter. Sloppiness as it relates to steel guitar is far less conspicuous, escaping notice at times. A critical area of becoming sloppy is if we play an improperly tuned instrument, or if the pitch is a silly iota up or down. Pedals, pedal rods, knee lever placement in relation to pedals, may indicate a sloppy approach to pedal steel. Even the selection of a thumb pick, accounts for identifying who may be trying a little harder to advance musically. Of course, this thread's purpose is
to share thoughts about successes realized, by trying harder to succeed.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Dave B.,

I'm honored by your informative input on the subject of timing that seems to involve a sense of timing, rhythm, and syncopation. It brings back memories of the great Chet Atkins and his association with the Springfield Symphony Orchestra, in Springfield, MA. When asked by a partner in the constituency if he could read music, he replied, "Not enough to hurt my playing". During the performance, Chet was the spokesman representing a concert at Stanley Park, in Westfield, MA. The year was circa 1985, and he was explaining the difficulties in trying to get things right. At one of the breaks he was heard to say, "I wish that I could play it twice, the same way." I'm sure that his words struck at the heart of each member of the Smphony Orchestra. Chet received wide acclaim while recording at another time with The Boston Symphony Orchestra. Dave, in light of Chet's comments, I'm wondering about the adaptability to the milliseconds reshaping of timing. I would enjoy more of your partaking in the "sloppy" playing issue.

Bill Duve · From: Limestone .New York, USA

Thanks for this thread Bill H,
I should explain abit mebby where I stand on sloppiness,
As Ive said before I played lead 6 string well call it for years a long time ago, 3/4 pieces most the time, Just try to carry a whole 4 hrs gig when your singer cant make it completely instrumental and see how much room there is for sloppiness.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

David Mason,

You've written excellent articles pertaining to the art of playing steel guitar. I feel as though I've been remiss by not keeping abreast with your thoughts that have been equally diversified. I want to thank you for your help and shared wisdom. The last time that I passed through your state at 2:30 A.M., I was surrounded by huge trailer trucks on the Memorial Bridge. It would be the equivalent of trying to play steel with Emmons, Green, Mooney, and Brumley, sitting at their steels, at each corner of your own instrument. By the time I reached the northern end of the bridge, I was a nervous wreck. Those huge trucks get rolling in the wee hours of the morning; down there. I found out the hard way.

It is indeed remarkable, when considering many of the things that you do during the day, require only minimal concentration. I suspect that questions involving the elusive, and rare sense of perfect pitch, timing, and retentive abilities, are all part of individuality. I've been told that, "You can't make a silk purse, from a sow's ear." Sad, but it seems to make sense. It's a bad day when you miss hearing "A squeak in the forest", by way of admonishment, for not conforming to some rigid, trivial motivation enacted by whomever.

Forum Index > Steel Players		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic