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Topic: Spruce to Dobro |
George Macdonald
From:
Vancouver Island BC Canada
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 10:02 am |
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| I recently bought a 77 OMI Dobro with a spruce top. I like the sound of it very much, but not being a reso expert, [30 years of pedal steel], I'm just wondering if the spruce top enhances the sound in any way? It has maple sides and back and is finished in the dark burst. The original owner has had it in a closet for most of the last 30 years and it looks brand new. Thanks, George |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 4:23 pm
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| Most of the sound of a Dobro comes from the resonator and how it is mounted in the body, and how the bridge and saddle are constructed. The resonator usually rests on a wooden sound ring that rests on the back of the instrument. It is not suspended from the top. Therefore, the top material has very little effect on the sound. This is completely different from an acoustic guitar, for which the top is the sound board, and for which the top material is very important. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 6:11 pm
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| I believe the Mike Auldridge Beard guitars are made of birch plywood, tops included. I know that Ivan Guernsey uses only ply, and I'll put his guitars up against anybody's. As David says, the mounting of the cone, and contact of the spider, make or break the sound of a dobro. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 9:52 pm
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Major oversimplifications of the complexity of the dobro sound, fellas.
The true, traditional Dobro, with a sound ring which just about matches the circumference of the cone, is a different beast than the contremporay resonator guitar, lacking the sound round ring and utilizing the whole body of the guitar which is helped along by baffles that direct the sound.
The top builders utilize a number of different woods, just like acoustic six-string builders that employ a variety of woods. And when you play them in a side-by-side-by-side test, you can hear some significant differences.
No doubt a rosewood/spruce combo in a dobro is not the same animal as when utilized in a Martin dreadnought, but it can have a warmer sound in a reso than for instance maple, which will be brighter. Rob Ickes likes the rosewood/spruce combo in his Scheerhorns for just that reason.
The Finnish birch laminate woodsets utilized by Ivan Guernsey, and also by Paul Beard for his Mike Auldridge Signature guitars are high end pieces, even though the immediate suspicion might be that Guernsey skimps on the raw materials and makes up for it with luthiery skills.
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Mark |
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Gregg McKenna
From:
South Windsor, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 10:28 pm Re: Spruce to Dobro
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| George Macdonald wrote: |
| I recently bought a 77 OMI Dobro with a spruce top. I like the sound of it very much, but not being a reso expert, [30 years of pedal steel], I'm just wondering if the spruce top enhances the sound in any way? It has maple sides and back and is finished in the dark burst. The original owner has had it in a closet for most of the last 30 years and it looks brand new. Thanks, George |
Sounds like a nice guitar. The spruce top on the 77 OMI is probably a veneered spruce (you could tell for sure if you remove one of the soundrings and can count wood ply on the edge of the wood. If that's the case, it's not going to really change the sound based on it being a spruce top.
If it is a solid top, it can enhance the sound some based on the properties of spruce as a tonewood. (as well as the rest of the woods making up the soundbox).
Just my humble $.02 based on building solid and laminated spruce tops through the years. |
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Gregg McKenna
From:
South Windsor, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2007 10:36 pm
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
The Finnish birch laminate woodsets utilized by Ivan Guernsey, and also by Paul Beard for his Mike Auldridge Signature guitars are high end pieces, even though the immediate suspicion might be that Guernsey skimps on the raw materials and makes up for it with luthiery skills. |
If immediate suspicion believes Finnish Birch as a skimpy raw material, then they are highly deceived to say the very least. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 7 Jan 2007 7:14 am
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It's certainly not my immediate suspicion, Gregg. You've been around these discussion boards enough to know that the plywood thing for resos sometimes is looked down upon, as if it isn't the same level of quality as a solid wood guitar. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Mark |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2007 10:04 am
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agreed. today's well made laminates are engineered, and often desirable.
my National has a walnut ply top.
laminates are not to be looked down upon, except when playing them, cleaning them, or changing your strings. |
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Gregg McKenna
From:
South Windsor, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2007 6:52 pm
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| It's certainly not my immediate suspicion, Gregg. You've been around these discussion boards enough to know that the plywood thing for resos sometimes is looked down upon, as if it isn't the same level of quality as a solid wood guitar. Nothing could be further from the truth. |
Back in 2001 when I first had access to the WWW, I was one of the only ones who was posting regularly on the discussion boards about some of the benefits of laminated construction used in reso-guitar construction. Back then, I remember that my message was not too well received. Now how times have changed since more builders have gone over to adding/offering laminated models.  |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 7 Jan 2007 8:34 pm
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The subject of laminates may be worth its own thread. I think what many people don't understand is that ordinary plywood and high quality laminates are not the same thing. Plywood is scrap soft pine layered with cheap glue. Laminates can be high quality hardwoods layered with epoxy-like resins. Such laminates can be harder, more consistent, and have resonance qualities as good or better than solid wood. They can also minimize temperature and humidity changes.
And, by the way, when I said top and body materials have "very little effect" on the tone of resos, I didn't mean they have no effect. The difference between a plywood and a spruce top on a reso is just way more subtle than in a regular acoustic guitar. In an acoustic guitar, the top is the soundboard and makes the sound. In a reso, the resonator makes the sound, and the top and body alter it in subtle ways, mostly by their reflectance properties. So I think we all agree that, even in a reso, the top and body materials make some difference - it's just a question of how much. |
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Gregg McKenna
From:
South Windsor, Connecticut, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2007 8:01 am
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| David Doggett wrote: |
The subject of laminates may be worth its own thread. I think what many people don't understand is that ordinary plywood and high quality laminates are not the same thing. Plywood is scrap soft pine layered with cheap glue. Laminates can be high quality hardwoods layered with epoxy-like resins. Such laminates can be harder, more consistent, and have resonance qualities as good or better than solid wood. They can also minimize temperature and humidity changes.
And, by the way, when I said top and body materials have "very little effect" on the tone of resos, I didn't mean they have no effect. The difference between a plywood and a spruce top on a reso is just way more subtle than in a regular acoustic guitar. In an acoustic guitar, the top is the soundboard and makes the sound. In a reso, the resonator makes the sound, and the top and body alter it in subtle ways, mostly by their reflectance properties. So I think we all agree that, even in a reso, the top and body materials make some difference - it's just a question of how much. |
Very Well Said. Most people who drop an expensive solid wood guitar on a hard floor, might also appreciate some of the benefits of a laminated guitar...being strength/resistance to cracking  |
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