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Topic: finishing off a maple lap steel |
Brian Henry
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 2:40 am |
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I am putting a lap steel together and have most of the parts I need. I have this beautiful piece of curly maple that I want to use. I need some suggestions for finishing the maple. I would like a natural look. What should I do?
1. use tung oil or
2 use a stain and lacquer, if so what stain or
3. What should I do to bring out the natural color of the wood? Thank you tbh |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 4:29 am
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TB, maybe look for a piece of Swamp Ash
like the older Stringmasters are made from.
it would sound really great.
I hope it will have 8 strings too.
A natural clear laquer might me nice either way.
If you satin 1st use something really light. |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 5:06 am
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| There's some good info at the Stewart MacDonald website. Just scroll down to the Finishing Supplies section. |
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Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 5:46 am
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Do you want to "pop" the curl in the Maple? If so I have used a great technique with some dyes and then an oil finish over that. First you need to dye the wood and then sand it off. The "curl" will accept the dye all the way into the pores so when you sand the dye off of the piece, it will remain in the curly figure. Then use a tung oil or danish oil over that and you have then the tiger figure that a lot of people go after.
Do you want an "oil" finish or a lacquer finish like a regular guitar?
Mark
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Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
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Larry Phleger
From:
DuBois, PA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 6:41 am
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Mark,
What type of dye do you recommend? |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 6:56 am
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I have done a lot of finish work, repair work, built 30 instrument from scratch, etc. Seen a lot and tried a lot.
I do not reccommend tung oil for musical instruments. Don't take my word for it, just look at every major steel you have seen built in the last 40 years and tell me how many of them used an oil finish.
You will need to tint your lacquer or poly or whatever you are going to shoot and then just start to build up coats. Shoot about 4 coats, let dry a day or two and lightly sand with 400 paper using naptha just to knock down any obvious imperfections. Then shoot 4 and wet sand always using a rubber sanding block to keep the surface flat. Your early coats are half lacquer half thinner. You can use more lacquer to build faster, BUT you will have to heat the spray cup in a pot of VERY hot water in order for the lacquer to spray properly. About 8 or more sanded coats in you will need to do a very good wet sand to assure that all is flat and there are no imperfections and then start shooting "flash" coats of a mixture of more thinner to lacquer. This will give you a beautiful depth to your finish and make it easy to wet sand the final coats. All this takes skill and experience as from day to day, the temp and humidity makes for you using different mixtures and spray techniques. Also the most important part of doing a finish is the preparation of the body BEFORE you start shooting on finish. It has to be as perfect as you can get it. Don't ever think that the finish will cover up any problems in the wood, it will only accentuate them. Sand the body down to the finest grade of 220 paper you have, always using a sanding block.
You want to know why most steels are covered in that "kitchen counter material" as Pete Drake called it---try doing a lacquer finish.
Makes you appreciate a guitar done in beautiful wood and a nice clear finish to showcase that wood.
There is a place for plastic sheeting on steel guitars, but the epitome of a beautiful musical instrument is the combination of fine woods and a fine finish.
edit. Disclaimer. Know that these materials are hazardous to your health and very flammable!!! You need to take all precautions when using them. You make a wrong move in an enclosed area full of lacquer fumes and it will go off like a bomb. You have to use an organic style respirator to filter out the air particulates so they won't get in your lungs. This stuff causes all sorts of health problems.
Now you know why a lacquer finish costs more from the manufacturer. So much hand work involved it's silly!
[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 02 February 2005 at 07:06 AM.] |
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Mark Vinbury
From:
N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 7:56 am
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| Bill, Great outline of what it takes to do a real finish. It refreshed my memory on why I sell my lap steel kits unfinished. |
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Mark Ardito
From:
Chicago, IL, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 8:07 am
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Larry,
I highly recommend the TransTint dye's. There is a chain of wood working stores called "wood craft" and they stock all colors. Also, there is a finishing supply company that I use called "Homestead Finishing" and Jeff Jewitt (owner) is one of the best finishing experts around. He also runs a forum on his website and he will answer all of your finishing questions.
The problem with Maple is the "splotch" factor of it. Maple pores are very different than other species of wood. They accept stain/dye at uneven rates and this is what causes the "splotch" or "blotchy" look.
Your best bet is to seal the pores first and then start shifting your color. To seal pores I really like to use Shellac.
You should really check out Jeff Jewitt's forum at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/ He also has written a lot of great books on finishing.
Cheers!
Mark
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Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com
http://www.arditotech.com
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 8:12 am
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Mark you are right about the "splotchy" factor.
I never seal maple. It is a closed pore wood that does not need it. The reason I don't is because I NEVER apply stain to the wood. It just looks horrid. If you tint your lacquer you will have the best results. |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 11:33 am
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Maple will accept analine dyes directly onto the wood fairly evenly, but like Bill, I prefer when doing sunbursts to laydown a light clear coat first and then do any shading. After that I add the clear coats. this gives the figure a much better look.
If you decide to go with oil for simplicities sake use Caseys' Tru-Oil or another polymerized oil finish and not just Tung or Lindseed. You will also want to get the surface essentially perfect with oil and sand to at least 600 grit, raise the grain and sand it back down again before applying the oil
Here's a sunburst done in analine dyes and nitro lacquer.
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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
[This message was edited by Mike D on 02 February 2005 at 12:47 PM.] |
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Mike Ruffin
From:
El Paso, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 4:57 pm
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| WOW!! Mike, that is gorgeous!! |
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Mike Simpson
From:
Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2005 8:52 pm
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I used garnet shellac as a base coat to bring out the definition of the flame and add a slight vintage amber color and then used Nitro Laquer over the shellac with excellent results. I even used the stewmac nitro laquer in a spray can. I leveled it with micro mesh to a high gloss.
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Big Mike
http://www.blueswizards.net
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 3 Feb 2005 5:29 am
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Beautiful job Mike!! I would be afraid to play something that nice!
BILL |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 3 Feb 2005 7:45 am
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Thanks guys.
Like Mike I've used garnet shellac and also added alcohol-based analine dyes to blond shellac to use as a sealer/basecoat.
Shellac is great to use under oil, lacquer etc, just don't put it down too heavy under lacquer.
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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Feb 2005 8:43 am
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Oh man, what a beautiful steel. Great job, Mike!
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 3 Feb 2005 10:13 am
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Is that guitar called the Les-Tele, Mike?
Beautiful finish work. |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 3 Feb 2005 10:35 am
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Andy, I call it the 'Lap Paul' 
I should have carried on the Gibson theme and used a stop tailpiece and P-90 but wanted to use the Tele bridge I had so it became a mixed breed.
I don't like the P/U in it and need to switch it out for one of those Broadcaster reissues or something similar.
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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Posted 3 Feb 2005 5:04 pm
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Everything you need to know about guitar finishing, including supplies, at the Guitar ReRanch: http://home.flash.net/~guitars/
Good luck with it,
Peter |
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Chuck Fisher
From:
Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Feb 2005 3:07 pm
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Nice job there, Mike. The Gibson tailpiece would have been good or Hipshot's baby grand would have looked nice with a p-90, not that the brand F stuff is bad... You haven't lost your touch.
All best,
CF
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