Island Studio Project so far

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Hi TC
As of yesterday I had Steve, the yank builder,
make some 4x8 plywood corner baffles for the 1032's.
Now screwed on to the stands that I am using
in the small house/temp studio.

I have 3 RPG Modex corners behind one baffle,
40, 63 and 80 hz. with the same at the back wall.
And a Procorner behind the other.

Since the tops are open, and sides
just resting against the Profoam,
the Modex will still work on the low freqs.

It really helped the imaging and bass clarity.
There was a lot of sub 300 hz muddle
from behind that I disliked immensely.
And no way to move them to better locations.
I knew I was being fooled, but not by how much etc.
Haven't run a Spectralfoo sweep and 12th octave graph to compare the changes yet.

I wish I had a full FFT time vs freq vs db graphing,
But haven't had time to decifer foo's different take on that.

I did some mixes yesterday and today,
and it is MUCH more like I intend when
I go to the truck sound system.

It is presently close / mid field, since there is no more distance to be had.

I am thinking to use a lot of space to get the best possible bass extention.
I had them stand mounted before in France,
but have not been as happy as I hoped like that.

Here's a mix from then; [url=http://worldserver4.oleane.com/canardplus/Musique/River's_Edge.mp3]http://worldserver4.oleane.com/canardplus/Musique/River's_Edge.mp3[/url]

I DO like 1032a's though.
I a good room their sound "travels well".
I have 3 for the front and 2 1031a's for the rear
and a 1094 sub woofer
a classic Genelec 5.1 system.

I dislike mixing at excessive volumes even in big spaces.
I get, and have had, enough loud for my lifetime.
So for the moment they will be adequate.

If I go for stand it will be V shaped rock pedestals,
V point toward the front wall probably,
floating on hard rubber, and 50% compressed foam under the speakers.

I plan to make the laterally tuneable wall easily updatable for larger front monitors in the future.

My other long term personal monitors have been
JBL 4311's both stand and wall mounted,
Altec 604e's, and their updated type
the wall mounted URIE 811b time aligns.

I regret losing any and all of them.

If you have a particular rock album you like for testing a room, let me know.

I have Gloria Estphan's Mi Tierra,
but it isn't directly applicable to rock.
Though it DOES tell me if a room is odd or not.

Please let me know your decoupling method, of course.
By email if you prefer.
But our discussion might help others with home studios
understand what's happening in their rooms.

Maybe this needs to go Electronics,
though it actual is neither fish nor fowl
vis a vis forum catagories, and Donna doesn't mind it here.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 30 August 2006 at 08:01 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

The computer sound system is a poor place to judge, but it sounds very crisp to me (bass). And the piano is perfect sounding.
(You don't really have a big Bosendorfer there, do you? It's a bass trap in itself.)

And, I love that tune. Zappa would dig the 'horn' arrangement.

I don't grok why you're using a 5.1 system there. Reasoning?

[This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 30 August 2006 at 08:27 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

5.1 is for video and film sound.
I am a video editor.
I did that for a living in NYC 10+ years back.

Also 5.1 can be used for DVD music at 96khz for
playing on home cinema systems.
Or if recorded properly, live concert music etc.

Charlie I recorded the music in the basement of my house
in the south of France.

Except the piano, wich I recorded last in a studio in NYC.
because my old buddy Glenway could meet me there,
during a run from Boston to New Orleans.
He also sight read 8 pieces of this level
in under 24 hours and recorded them.

But I did the rather specialized piano micing.
I brought a DAT of the band, and put it in Protools in NYC.
2 Neumans in the piano, 1 Royer ribbon 6 feet back and 3' up,
and a MS / Blumlien X-Y pair 20 feet back.
Each to it's own track. Which allowed me to go back to France, with 5 piano tracks per song,
add the piano and create a different environmental mix AFTER the recording,
by blending different combinations of mics.

It was a 8 foot Yamaha grand, maintained by Steinway NYC techs.
Both the assistant engineer and the house head engineer stated they had never heard
their piano sound this good, and would copy my method.

Ah, that DID make me happy.
Immitation is the most sincere form of flattery LOL.

Plus I was happy with the sound in the mix later.
The piano intro is an outro improv on the chord pattern,
moved to the front.

As to Zappa, I have been a big fan. I wasn't thinking Frank during this, it just comes out.
And you are not the 1st to bring him up vis a vis my harmonizations.

The harmony chorus is electric guitar, sax and electric violin.
Not your typical horn section, but arranged as such.

Also I edited the WHOLE arrangment to add
a solo space for the piano player.
Even the drummer couldn't tell where I edited his drums.
I had to point it out.

Jean-Luc had listened to the song many times pre-piano,
and suddenly was thrown totally for 7,
"Wait, wait, what's happening???
How'd this get here!!!???"

The mixing room was about 10 x 12 feet, with a non-environmental sound treatment,
but too small a space for acurate bass responce.
But not to bad for a "Home Recording".

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 30 August 2006 at 08:04 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I see. Very interesting.
"Home recording."

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ok here is an update on my project.

This is looking along the east wall, and facing the north wall.

It appears an electric pole has fallen through the control room window,
but I don't think that's the case.
Just classic Thai jury-rigged wiring.
Scares me sometimes... uh many times.

There will be another similar window to the right of the column.
This level is 5 meters to the beam tops,
and will have a peaked roof running left right in this view.

The monitors for stereo will be against the left wall,
and control room Studio 1 window opposite the exterior windows.

This will be THICK glass, doubled up.

Too the right is the office/kitchen being walled.
it will also be lofted and extended on the 2nd floor towards the main studio,
as living room,
and later "girlfriend control lounge".

it will have a shorter peaked roof looking west,
and some 3rd story lofting yet to be figured out yet.

More in a bit.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 September 2006 at 08:36 AM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

David, with your innovative creations of a studio with it's exotic surroundings, why don't you "bid" as a filming location for the hit TV episode "LOST" for their next season?

Hawaii is beginning to wear kind of thin with the viewers because so many tourists are familiar with the filming locations.

------------------

www.genejones.com

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Hi Gene
This area has had some filming.
It has been in James Bond, and the like.

One of my best friends here is in final
script edit / pre-production for a film about
the syncronisity, circling the life of an
Amer-asian Bangkok Taxi driver.

I actually have been sent to casting calls here,to my utter surprise.
One part was "Calico Billy, pegleg pirate ships cook and general wastrel."
Appearently I was in consideration,
but lost to a working actor... which don't bother me none.

So I am pretty sure film's that DO
need something like this will know of it.

I am hooked up to the local indie film scene periferally.
I know how well Richard is connected in town,
because actresses were hitting on me,
just because I came in with him to a film evening...

As a bit of scenery or a smaller shooting stage I will be nicely set.
But I am also interested in soundtracks,
or post production for indies around here.
If you can't afford Lucas's Skywalker Ranch in Calf.
I'll cut you a deal.

Or as an artist writing and escape spot for being creative.
Here's your month lockout,
have fun, but get something done.

Here is the view across the control room, through the studios, due south.

And the main southern bay window,
destined to eventually be mostly glass.

I am trying to balance real daylight and it's vitamin D vitality,
with enough sound isolation properties to make for a usable space.

As many of you have recorded before,
I am sure you have encountered the
studio mushroom / recording engineer type before.
Too many sessions in a cave
and only seeing daylight on the way to bed...

Even if most session work is done at night,
when people sing better, and are more loose,
plenty of stuff gets done during day light hours.
But the production staff usually gets little of it...

Well the roof trusses have been delivered
and will be going up soon.
The plywood and assorted roof coverings.
Then cement tritone roof tiles, with roof peak heat venting.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 September 2006 at 10:46 AM.]

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 September 2006 at 10:50 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I had thought to take a shot or two yesterday,
but the camera had dead batts.
the batts I bought were bad,
and then it rained, and I was on the bike..
Oh well.

When we first dug out and steeled up the footings for colums we had
CPAC deliver a few cue's of cement. (cue=cubic meter)
Well truck 3 had a pretty dumb driver,
he apparently blew his shift coming over the hump.
and lost 2 que out of the top of the truck...

The other drivers and forman were ribbing him MERCELESSLY,
as they shoveled cement out of the road,
and re-tipped the truck down.
Basically he was beyond "losing face", it was just erased.

The forman sent me two pics on request.

As this was going on 6 elephants passed by
going down to their night resting place.
They seem not amused at this weirdly placed truck...

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 September 2006 at 10:19 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Some pics from today.
It's post gig 2:30 am, so no detailed descriptions tonight.
zzzzznnnnqurk

( next day, Ok awake now)
This shot is from studio 2 or 3, over the floor of Studio 1
looking at the big window to the control room.
The red roof trusses are off to the right.

The far corner from the camera, after stairs(see board on wall)
will have a rounded wall computer, technical space,
with a cement ceiling and guitar booth over it.
Accessible from some relatively steep stairs.
This keeps noisy things a short distance for wires,
and also breaks up the corner standing waves and modes.

To it's left next to it will be a D shaped round wall vocal booth,
and amp booth above, accessed from the same stairs

The entrance door far left is in an angled wall,
removing another 90° angle in the room.
Above it will be a small 2nd floor observation window,
from the lounge living space over the office.

Below, you can see three guys working on the office 2nd floor,
and the main entrance way below them.

The restroom shower is under the brown shirt'd fellow.
Office kitchenette window is to far left.

To the right is an angled wall just to the left of the big scafolding,
the second floor will extend in a triangle over to that wall.

There is a studio 1 window below,
and they are still blocking the top of that wall.

The column on forground is for the yet to be built house part of the rpject.

Below ; The worker is sitting with his legs hanging into the staricase well of the kitchenette.
The control room is to the left.
The control room roof will peak, sloping left to right
in this view, and the office 2nd floor will dormer off it
sloping front to back this view. With a nice westerly view for sunsets.
Enough space for a 3rd small loft space above it.

Here, they are blocking in the control room to studio wall,
with glass door and BIG wondow between them.
The space I am shooting through will eventually be blocked, but is used for transport right now.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 09 September 2006 at 10:15 PM.]

Donna Dodd · From: Acworth, Georgia, USA

David, Although I lived all over the world as an Airforce brat - and visited even more as a Delta flight attendant, YOUR experiences in Thailand never cease to amaze me! Your life is an adventure in itself. I was going to remind you to take copious notes - but . . . you already have!

Thanks for sharing!

P.S. I've never seen a cement truck stand on its hind legs!!

[This message was edited by Donna Dodd on 09 September 2006 at 01:20 PM.]

Joe McHam · From: Houston, TX * R.I.P.

Well it looks like we will have to reschedule the CD session booked for next week...LOL!!! I can see the wheels of progress turning.. Looks like the grooming for a fine Constrution Super in the making.. Are you having fun yet???? Keep up the great work..

------------------
Excel Superb S12 8/6
http://www.joemcham.com

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Donna, life can be an adventure if you make the effort.
Actualy for expats in Thailand
I am a pretty calm one...
1 lady friend, drinking in low moderation, etc.

There is a book called Bangkok Babylon, by Jerry Hopkins.
He did Elvis and Jim Morrison's bios,
AND our singer Rick TOO.

It is a bunch of short chapters about various characters around the country.
Worth getting, it is an entrancing read.
Rick's chapter is called "Rock Star".
http://www.amazon.co m/Bangkok-Babylon-Real-Life-Legendary-Expatriates/dp/079460224X/sr=8-1/qid=1157866806/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2686313-9007364?ie=UTF8&s=books

************************
Joe, bookings will be delayed do to "mai bpen rai".
Which loosely translates to "Don't worry, Be Happy".
It'll get done when it gets done.

**********************
I was told last night the music festival will happen this year,
10 days still, but on a MUCH smaller scale,
and "we are getting an invitation". Whatever that means.

Some reports say mostly Thai bands.

Another last night said 25 bands from Denmark are booked...
I can't imagine how they can find 25 bands there
worth bringing half way round the world...
Nothing against Denmark,I like it and the Danes, I've been there 3 times.
But it IS a small country...
But who they gonna get????

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 10 September 2006 at 10:10 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ok, a 1st draft cad/cam of the 5.1 surround control room.
Still subject to some bass damping calculation changes etc.

As well as sub woofer tuning movements
And Sweet spot, front/rear monitor distances
and front imaging issues

It will do well film mixing,
but primarily MUST be good for stereo work.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 September 2006 at 10:37 AM.]

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 September 2006 at 10:38 AM.]

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Donald, your knowledge of recording technology is mind-bending to me.

As you mentioned in another thread, I did record a CD with home-recording equipment and it was a one-person project....and all of my deficits of knowlege in recording technology is evident. I have to think that I really do sound better than the final product that I finished.

Before I die, I would like to have you produce and record one final CD that will not necessarily be accepted by the "buying" public, but that I can leave to my decendants.

My "TRUST" maturity will determine the date.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Gene, while your home recording wasn't
gonna win engineering awards.

YOUR MUSIC was from the heart
and I still listen to it from time to time.
That IS the bottom line.

I would of course be happy to help you
make a fine recording in the future.
And hope you live long enough for your
GREAT grandchildren to tell their friends,
Gramps played this!

As I commented earlier to my studio designer friend, Sooch, back in France.

"Studio design science gets you to place where
ART and accident can take over."

Sooch did acoustics for my last "small" studio in France,
and is giving me feedback on this bigger space.
It was around his 50th studio project in 2000.

It is actually MUCH, MUCH harder to make
small rooms sound great, than big'uns.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 September 2006 at 10:35 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Well Donna was kind enough to move this
to a more appropriate home.
RECORDING.
Now that b0b actually built the home!

I have roof trusses up in the main recording section,
and I guess they are starting the control room roof today.
Or they are fixing the cement to truss interface points.
I'm not sure,
I haven't climbed the 6.5 to 7 meters up,
just to look!

Progress for sure.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Still following your progress.

What a dreamy
idea
island studio

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Edited photo sept 18th
to show roof trusses for Studio 1+2+3 up. looking towards control room.

One center beam extends over control room.

And now from earlier ;
two of the guys up around 8.5 meters UP
starting to place the side trusses for welding

Basically the steel shop closed
and the whole lot moved down to get this up.
I think the control room roof is happening very soon.

I am debating if I need to damp the trusses with blown-in expanding insulation
to make sure they don't ring at all.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 September 2006 at 05:59 AM.]

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

Wow what a great project, I'm curious, what are building codes like? On your truss-ringing, maybe rubber balls every so-far pushed in box-beam with a pole or such...

Drop me a line re month blocks cost-guesses. Looks like a great mind-dcompressing location and I have been wanting to see Thailand.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Yes mind decompression. A good metaphor for my location.
Sometimes you just gotta getaway to create,
off your normal beaten path, removing the daily distractions,
yet having a bit of RnR available easily too.

Rubber balls; interesting I tyhink considering the area that injected foam is the best idea,
I will need some of that anyway for heat control etc.
it goes in and expands to fill and the hardens.
Something like jello would be ideal,
but who knows where that might be found.

Block booking $... dang, I want a roof foirst!!!
But it IS nice to get the question.

Chuck I haven't gotten close to that yet.
It also depends on what Protools system I will have in there.

I have an older system which does good work,
but the room warrents the latest iteration.

But I must balance system upgrade vs finishing the room.
Coming from the old school of 2-4 mics in a great room,
live to 2 tracks,
I think the room is as important as the upgrade at this point.

No-one has been complaining about the Mix 24 PT system anyway.
I of course would prefer HD at home now.

I clearly see the benifits of 96k and better dithering etc.
And editing power is always a plus.

But a control room where you can hear the reverb tails,
and clearly tell what your mics are doing,
and a playing room that is sweet and warm.
with good distance and no fluttter echos,
is more important than a changed bit rate.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 September 2006 at 09:13 PM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

There was a demand to see working elephants.
Well these 3 fellas were coming out of my road this evening.

I passed 5-6 and dodged some HUGE roadapples before I go this shot.
And there were another 5-6 in front of the cement truck you can't see.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 September 2006 at 06:05 AM.]

Chuck Fisher · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.

protools HD, a great control surface, a couple of 42" 1080p flatpanels , and a big raid array as well as power conditioning up the yingyang is called for, maybe a Studer 827, low maintenance relatively for analog.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I have a 5000w APC UPS / conditioner.
it will hold the whole studio
and 1-2 guitar amps till the end of a song.
then a save.

You see the lights dim, but the system is stable.

I also eventually plan on a 5K generator at some point.

I have around 1.2 tera byte of discs now.

A nice big Samsung flat monitor,
and 2 Sycmaster 713n monitors.

And an older long throw video projector,
good for 40 feet distance.

John Macy · From: Rockport TX/Denver CO

Nice, David. While I am fairly happy with removing myself from the commercial studio business, seeing a ground-up venture does get my blood moving. My first studio in the late '70's was a ground-up room in the mountains south of Denver, and what a blast that was. My other rooms over the years were retrofits--one in a circa 1888 corner grocery store, one in a loft space downtown, and my last one during the '90's was a 3 room complex in a 6500sf warehouse space. I have been pretty much freelance since '99, doing a lot of work in a studio I designed and built for the church I play at, and utilizing other rooms around town. I am looking for a space to put my mix rig into, mostly for overdubs and mixing, but just one large space with no glass between me and the artist, like Lanois works.

Your room looks killer and I would get it up and running and add treatment as needed--that's the way I have always worked. My studios since the 80's have always been a basic LEDE design, thought not as radical as some. I always work at pretty low volumes, so the room is not quite as importan as those who track loud.

Keep the pictures coming, it is a real pleasure to watch to come together. Who knows, I may show up there sometime...

Mike Shefrin · Posted 19 Sep 2006 7:39 am

quote:
I passed 5-6 and dodged some HUGE roadapples before I go this shot.
And there were another 5-6 in front of the cement truck you can't see.

LOL. David, you are unique to say the least. Keep us up to date. Am lovin it.

[This message was edited by Mike Shefrin on 19 September 2006 at 08:40 AM.]

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