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Topic: The Art of Compression |
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 1:26 pm |
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The Neve I have is a VCA type. I got it because I really loved the Neve pre amp 5012 and figured the 5043 compressor was a good place to start. I got a great deal on it so I could sell it if I didn't like it.
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Bob |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 4:46 pm NIce!
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That looks like a really nice compressor.
It would be interesting to hear how that unit "colors" the sound.
A lot of people really like the sound of Neve preamps.
Thanks for your answer, Bob.  |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Apr 2016 8:51 pm
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Rick,
So far with the Neve I'm not getting a colored sound really. It seems more like I'm using a focus on a camera if that makes any sense.
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Bob |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 5:49 am
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My favorite compressor of all time is the Distressor EL-8. I really feel like it has it all in that box--you can do so much with it and no matter what you put through it, it always comes out sounding better at the output. Amazing for vocals, drums, room mics.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 11:24 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Rick,
So far with the Neve I'm not getting a colored sound really. It seems more like I'm using a focus on a camera if that makes any sense. |
Got it.
Thanks. |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 11:31 am
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| My favorite compressor of all time is the Distressor EL-8. I really feel like it has it all in that box--you can do so much with it and no matter what you put through it, it always comes out sounding better at the output. Amazing for vocals, drums, room mics. |
I know that a lot of this comes down to personal choice, but what makes you prefer this compressor over something like a DBX 160 or the Neve that Bob mentioned?
It looks like a lot of guys really like the DBX 160 for overheads.
I see the Distressor has a high pass filter. Is that part of the reason you choose it? |
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werner althaus
From:
lincoln, NE
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 6:41 pm
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| The distressor has its' name from the words distortion and compressor so you can guess what it does differently from a compressor like the Neve or DBX 160. It's a very popular unit for getting crunchy snare drums via parallel compression, etc. I personally hate it and find it to be very overused but I realize I'm in the minority. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 26 Apr 2016 8:49 pm
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It is much more versatile than that, Werner. Yes, there is definitely a lot of coloration available, in varying degrees, giving you the ability to have the vintage analog tape, tube and vinyl sound. I loved playing around with it.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 5:07 am
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The distressor is a great piece of gear but I am prejudiced against it. I have been in so many sessions where I watched the producer destroy a beautiful track with that box. It was the go to unit to make a great dynamic ensemble recording sound like a couple agitated and angry munchkins for years. If used right it can be great for making a track sound big without taking up more space but I just can't get myself to use it yet. It's sound puts my brain In the same place that hideous and ubiquitous DX7 keyboard sound from the 80's does.
I will revisit it soon now that I am digging into this recording stuff.
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Bob |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 6:41 am
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The Distressor is way too easy to abuse and few have been able to avoid that (Nuke is a dangerous thing!).
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 11:27 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
that hideous and ubiquitous DX7 keyboard sound from the 80's does.
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Ha! Yep, those sounds got old really fast. 
I remember that their emulation of a Rhodes was absolutely terrible.
Maybe it was fine as an added voice.
But as a replacement for an actual Rhodes?
Nope!
Rick |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 11:30 am
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So, does the Distressor act the same as something like the Sound Toys plugin called Decapitator?
I've heard that plugin being used on a vocal track before.
Is that the same type of sound you would get from the Distressor?
Rick |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 3:06 pm
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I can't answer that, Rick. I have no experience with it. I know that Dave Derr is developing a plugin, but the code must be incredibly deep as its taking some time and the price is estimated to be a few hundred dollars.
I know what you guys are saying about the Distressor, but you can blame that on misuse to large degree. It's not a squeaky clean piece of gear, but there is versatility and it is very musical. It can do a Fairchild, an LA2A and an 1176.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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werner althaus
From:
lincoln, NE
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 6:42 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
| It is much more versatile than that, Werner. Yes, there is definitely a lot of coloration available, in varying degrees, giving you the ability to have the vintage analog tape, tube and vinyl sound. I loved playing around with it. |
I know that it can be used in ways that I find pleasing but that's not what it's known for. Didn't mean to badmouth your gear, in the end it's never the gear, only the (ab)user. |
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werner althaus
From:
lincoln, NE
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Posted 27 Apr 2016 6:44 pm
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
...It was the go to unit to make a great dynamic ensemble recording sound like a couple agitated and angry munchkins for years. ..... It's sound puts my brain In the same place that hideous and ubiquitous DX7 keyboard sound from the 80's does.
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That's exactly how I feel about it but could never express so precisely. Respect!
I guess the thing that gets me about many of these distortion/ saturation tools is the belief and manufacturer propaganda that it adds "character". In a world where technology makes everything way too easy we're left with legions of "recording engineers" who believe character is something you can get as an app. I may sound like a cranky old man but IMHO there are devices that were designed to do their job with minimal distortion/ color which will produce beautiful distortion/ color when pushed and there are devices designed to create this distortion/ color but are unable to do that other thing, namely the purpose it was supposedly built to perform. I don't care if we're talking compressors, consoles, mic pres, guitar amps......if it's built with distortion in mind it usually doesn't do so well at its primary job.
Having said that, I just today installed AVID HEAT (makes ITB mixing sound like tape and console, according to AVID) on my rig to salvage a musicmix that sounded so clinical it hurt. In the end it's all good, just felt like ranting a little. |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 30 Apr 2016 10:01 pm
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Interesting...I have owned Distressors for years since they came out (one of mine is serial #59--there are 28,000 of them out there). They are very easy to use and can run as clean and gentle as you want, or as hard and bone crushing as you want to take it. For clean, leave the Dist button off and just run a low ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 and slow down the attack and speed up the release...I also use the opto setting a lot...
I own a lot of compressors and if I had to give them all up and only keep one, it would be the Distressor (though an 1176 would be second)....
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John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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Bill D. Terry
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 May 2016 5:47 am
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| John Macy wrote: |
Interesting...I have owned Distressors for years since they came out (one of mine is serial #59--there are 28,000 of them out there). They are very easy to use and can run as clean and gentle as you want, or as hard and bone crushing as you want to take it. For clean, leave the Dist button off and just run a low ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 and slow down the attack and speed up the release...I also use the opto setting a lot...
I own a lot of compressors and if I had to give them all up and only keep one, it would be the Distressor (though an 1176 would be second).... |
I agree...this can be one of the cleanest compressors on the planet when used properly.
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"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 May 2016 10:36 am
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John and Bill,
I have heard the same from most everybody. Next time I find myself looking at compressors it will be at the top of my list. It's always great to discover the beauty and value in something I thought I didn't like.
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Bob |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 May 2016 12:57 am
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[quote="werner althaus"]
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
.... It's sound puts my brain In the same place that hideous and ubiquitous DX7 keyboard sound from the 80's does.
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I like the DX7 , owned a few, some incredible music and tones came out of those and began an iconic journey for Yamaha which still exists today !
Is it the Push Pull of Keyboards ? Because every other synth company has been chasing the DX7 for decades now.
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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werner althaus
From:
lincoln, NE
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Posted 2 May 2016 8:26 am
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[quote="Tony Prior"]
| werner althaus wrote: |
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
.... It's sound puts my brain In the same place that hideous and ubiquitous DX7 keyboard sound from the 80's does.
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I like the DX7 , owned a few, some incredible music and tones came out of those and began an iconic journey for Yamaha which still exists today !
Is it the Push Pull of Keyboards ? Because every other synth company has been chasing the DX7 for decades now.
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Haha, awesome.  |
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werner althaus
From:
lincoln, NE
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Posted 2 May 2016 8:37 am thought about compressor generated distortion artifacts
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| I think we all agree that compressors can add desirable color to our mixes but do yourselves one favor and reality-test your lossless mixes by encoding them to mp3 and listen back, or better yet, upload them to a hosting website and listen to the stream. I'm not a fan of the classic Rock they stream at my local gym but it always strikes me how superior the old mixes sound, especially the way the key elements of the mix (vocals, guitar leadbreaks, etc) cut through vs the garbled mess that something recorded since the mid 90's seems to turn into, once encoded and streamed. Fact is that lossy codecs don't know what to do with distortion so unless you live in a cave and plan to never share your music digitally it helps to be mindful that just because it sounds pleasing in your mix room doesn't mean it'll translate to the real world. A clean recording usually survives the abuses of lossy data compression way better than one with lots of "character". Just my 2 cents. |
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Bill D. Terry
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 May 2016 6:45 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
John and Bill,
I have heard the same from most everybody. Next time I find myself looking at compressors it will be at the top of my list. It's always great to discover the beauty and value in something I thought I didn't like. |
Having an ear for equipment and what it can do for you (or to you) is an art unto it's self. I see you have some good sounding equipment, so you probably grasp this concept as well.
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"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 6 May 2016 9:30 am About those Distressors...
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FWIW,
I noticed that the gentleman who wrote "The Art of Compression" has two of the Distressors in his studio.
Also, for those interested, go to around 27 minutes into this video to see what they say about the Distressor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjDUT0saxL4 |
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werner althaus
From:
lincoln, NE
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Posted 6 May 2016 9:14 pm
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| Rick Schacter wrote: |
FWIW,
I noticed that the gentleman who wrote "The Art of Compression" has two of the Distressors in his studio.
Also, for those interested, go to around 27 minutes into this video to see what they say about the Distressor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjDUT0saxL4 |
Does anybody use compressors for their intended purpose anymore? All I hear is excessive squish these days, it kinda gets old really fast, IMO. I can't even listen to the demos that Blind Melon guy has on his studio website. So if you want to learn the art of compression maybe you need to decide which art you want to learn, the art of controlling dynamic range w/o artifacts or the art of the squish? I want music to breathe and what many do with compression sucks every bit of life out of the recordings. I have come to prefer simple youtube videos done without much squish over most anything produced in big studios these days. case in point: That's compression messing up the performance on the studio recording. Here's raw and beautiful, really moving performance, not much going on in terms of compression, correct me if I'm wrong:
https://youtu.be/H1wiA-MUTT8
vs studio, lifeless and flat. YMMV
https://youtu.be/5ki5rSmMZHo
I hope it's okay to disagree here but to me the art of compression has been lost on most engineers working today. there are exceptions but those usually get their work destroyed by the Bob Ludwig's of the world. |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 6 May 2016 10:54 pm
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| werner althaus wrote: |
I hope it's okay to disagree here but to me the art of compression has been lost on most engineers working today. there are exceptions but those usually get their work destroyed by the Bob Ludwig's of the world. |
The purpose of this thread wasn't to agree or disagree with anyone.
I was pointing out a book that might clear up the confusion for people like me, who aren't exactly sure about when, where and how much compression to use for recording.
Since the Distressor was mentioned, I pointed out a couple of successful engineers who just happen to use them.
I don't actually have an opinion one way or the other about compression.
Quite frankly, I'm still a bit confused about it.
My conclusion is that it's like salt.
Everyone seasons to their own taste.
Rick
PS- I enjoyed the song from the artist that you posted, Werner. |
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