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Topic: First Pedal Steel (Sho Bud?) |
Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2024 5:26 pm |
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Oh nice! I got a message back from Justice, and Ron said he could make me a 3x4 for $1595 or he could do a C6 copedent for me…. I never considered getting a single C6 neck.. y’all would probably suggest I get E9 tho since I have already memorized the C6 neck? Then down the road if I move to a D10 I can just add both and get all the fixin’s I discover I want. The other good thing about the Justice is it’ll take 14 weeks so I can sorta pay for it in different ways. Either put a little back, use a whole invoice or who knows even bite the bullet and pull straight from the Kitty…. Tho that makes me sick lol 
Why do you like the 12 so much? I’m curious now. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2024 5:39 pm
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For a 12 string to be set up Universal E9/B6 tuning, Like Jeff Newman's tuning. requires 7 pedals and 5 knee levers.
Check number of pedals on guitar when looking at a 12string guitar.
A 12 string with 3-4 pedals can only be setup and tuned to Extended E9th. Strings 1-10 are standard E9th tuning with 11th G#, 12th E added. |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 2 Jul 2024 7:34 am
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Shea asked: Why do you like the 12 so much? I’m curious now.
As Bobby points out, the extended E 9 12-string tuning simply extends the E triads downward to a low E: the lowest string on a regular guitar.
So it's sort of more logical in that the tuning starts on a tonic note, an E. The next string up is a G#, which the extended tuning will pull up to an A (along with the other 2 G#-to-A pulls on your B lever.) Also in "pedals down" position, you have a low tonic too: that low A, same as the guitar's 5th string.
Those lower strings also enable you to play lower chord voices, bringing steel into another register. So if the guitar playing is playing high, the steeler can play low.
Finally, the 2 lower strings extend your ability to play low melodies. I think of this as the "cello range."
Shea, you already have basic knowledge of steel guitar: left hand and right hand. Don't be scared of a different tuning. |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2024 7:52 am
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| Chris Brooks wrote: |
Shea asked: Why do you like the 12 so much? I’m curious now.
As Bobby points out, the extended E 9 12-string tuning simply extends the E triads downward to a low E: the lowest string on a regular guitar.
So it's sort of more logical in that the tuning starts on a tonic note, an E. The next string up is a G#, which the extended tuning will pull up to an A (along with the other 2 G#-to-A pulls on your B lever.) Also in "pedals down" position, you have a low tonic too: that low A, same as the guitar's 5th string.
Those lower strings also enable you to play lower chord voices, bringing steel into another register. So if the guitar playing is playing high, the steeler can play low.
Finally, the 2 lower strings extend your ability to play low melodies. I think of this as the "cello range."
Shea, you already have basic knowledge of steel guitar: left hand and right hand. Don't be scared of a different tuning. |
I really appreciate these responses, the care y’all put in isn’t going unnoticed and I will pass it on if it’s ever possible.
The lower register could be fun for sure. I certainly love playing chord melody style on a regular guitar ala Joe Pass, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, etc and with all these strings theres even more that could be done with a bit of planning so I certainly get that desire. This idea of having all that on 1 neck is very intriguing. My intention with this is to start playing with a band fairly quickly because for me that’s the quickest way to improve on a new string instrument. So, it’s not as much I’m afraid of a new tuning, I just know everything you need to really get cooking already in C6. I need to look at the “Emmon’s copedent” and see what all options it opens up.
Thanks! |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2024 11:25 am
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Do you want to play country or jazz? E9th players can get C6th voicings just by engaging a single knee lever. E9th generally considered the more versatile tuning.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.
Last edited by Richard Alderson on 2 Jul 2024 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2024 3:36 pm
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| Richard Alderson wrote: |
| Do you want to play country or jazz? E9th players can get all the C6th voicings just by engaging a single knee lever. E9th generally considered the more versatile tuning. |
Well then that totally ends any questioning I had. I just haven’t sat down yet and drawn everything out to see how all the changes manifest. I need to make that a priority though and will get on it tonight so I can see what all options the Emmon’s setup gives, chord wise and such.
As for genre idk…. I’ve done everything from played with the local Symphony to punk bands. I love country and jazz both, ideally 40’s country with trad jazz harmony? lol |
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2024 8:30 pm
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So maybe 12 string tuning then to do both? Lots of nice 12 strings out there for 3,000.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 4:32 am
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I was where you are now a couple of years ago. Most recently, I've been exploring the D13 tuning with an 8x6 12string. I can find every thing I need on both necks on the D13, without having to think in two different tunings. It's all one big tuning. Deals can be had if you search. I recently purchased this D13 8x6 on the forum for $2,300. I'm selling all my other steels. This has everything.
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Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 5:39 am
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
I was where you are now a couple of years ago. Most recently, I've been exploring the D13 tuning with an 8x6 12string. I can find every thing I need on both necks on the D13, without having to think in two different tunings. It's all one big tuning. Deals can be had if you search. I recently purchased this D13 8x6 on the forum for $2,300. I'm selling all my other steels. This has everything.
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See I LOVE the way that looks! That looks like exactly what I’d want if I picked based on looks and my limited knowledge. Although the pickup would have to be different… I know the same things don’t transfer from guitar so it might be perfect for this but when I’ve tried those Lace p/u’s on guitar they weren’t my thing. Also, I prefer the card design of the Sho-Bud’s, I’ve had a card tattoo on my arm since I was young and it’s sort of a thing that always gets commented on. Regardless, the inlays are always so cool on these things.
The universal makes sense to me in a certain way because with no other instrument have I ever thought, “I need 2 of those in one.” Usually you just learn how to play everything on 1. Did the 2 neck thing start so the person wouldn’t have to relearn older songs or is it just because the bar is straight providing more strategies…? After the guy above said that 1 knee movement gets you C6 I was thrown for a loop. That gave me way more questions than answers honestly lol.
I’m just excited to get this and start writing music that’s the ultimate thing for me. Do some band work, do some solo shows with synths or something and pedal steel, it’s gonna be a blast. I am so excited to write for this instrument.
Thanks!
_________________
Ric m59 - Ce3 - Ge7 - Memphis Sun - Supro Thunderbolt 1x15 |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 7:13 am
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Yes, that is the basic set up. 12 strings and 7 pedals and 5 knees. Normally you over pay on Reverb, I don't think 1,900 is too bad. Yes, that is the basic model we are talking about here to do both E9th and C6th style playing on one neck with 12 strings.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 7:20 am
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He didn’t list the copedent, but seven and five can get you the universal E9B6 or even that D13 that Bill was talking about. The Deckley is a very well-made guitar. They have not been made for over 20 years I think. Unlike steels I usually see on Reverb, that’s a pretty reasonable price. The only drawback is it’s quite heavy.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 2:38 pm
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| K Maul wrote: |
| He didn’t list the copedent, but seven and five can get you the universal E9B6 or even that D13 that Bill was talking about. The Dekley is a very well-made guitar. They have not been made for over 20 years I think. Unlike steels I usually see on Reverb, that’s a pretty reasonable price. The only drawback is it’s quite heavy. |
There’s so much to analyze! This is one of those times I can feel my questions growing rather than my answers lol. I am going to stick to this single neck either straight E9 or universal though. I had intended to sketch the tunings out last night and see what all was available with the pedals, levers and slants but I sat down to do it then woke up in my chair at 2:00am…. That’s always how it goes… maybe tonight!
Thanks!
_________________
Ric m59 - Ce3 - Ge7 - Memphis Sun - Supro Thunderbolt 1x15 |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 3 Jul 2024 6:15 pm
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| Shea Stevenson wrote: |
There’s so much to analyze! |
Wait until you actually sit down behind it! Over-analysis made many great players turn away from pedal steel. Bill Keith and Jerry Garcia being just two that spring to mind! If you love the sound of the darn thing just get one and start playing it! There are many simple things you can learn to do that are quite beautiful. After a bit of that you can dig deeper but don’t let your brain kill your joy. It is easy to get all tangled up in blue with this thing. Play it and love it.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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