Keys of songs modified to accommodate the guitar player?

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Wasn't really directed at anyone.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I've viewed all these posts with great interest.

If'n the steel player plays only in C-Diatonic or C#min., what does he do if one of these cover songs should be the focus of everyones' attention?

Should he just sit out?
Should he carry an extra guitar for that selection?
Should he reject the entire gig?

WHAT should he do?

I was always under the impression that the steel and lead guitar were there to enhance the vocalist, regardless of what song is up. How is that they should be selecting the key when it's the singers' voice that has specific limitations?

The story has been told and repeated: So what if you do make a mistake on the band=stand.......No one will ever notice it anyway or even remember it.
How is a change of keys up or down the neck gonna be noticed by the audience?

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Thought about this some more....If you're going to do a professional-sounding cover at the local joint for people who like country music because it's the sound track of the workin' man's life,best to get it sounding just like
what said workin' man(and the women who love him)heard on the juke box.

That includes getting it in the original key,original licks,et cetera.Someone who doesn't play might not consciously notice a key substitution,he just won't think it sounds like what he heard on the jukebox,or the radio,or from a cover band who makes their music the audience's rather than making their music their own....

All that said,I got to rummaging around on Youtube for covers that DID take liberties with the original:Jim Ed Brown does "Pop A Top" in E,Alan Jackson in G with a a delicious instro not in the original that ends with a whole-step key raise.Jim Ed's version is great,but Alan's is quintessential honky-tonk.Another one: Merle did "White Line Fever" in C,the (Rick Roberts-fronted)Flying Burrito Bros in D.Makes it heavier-sounding,plus the FBB changed up the progression in the refrain,making it much stronger.I REALLY would have liked to hear Merle do this tune with the FBB arrangement-or maybe even with them backing him.

Point is it's very possible to alter a tune to make it better than the original.That is not at all the same as dumbing it down to suit a singer or player's limitations relative to that tune.The(very)last time I played six string for another steeler,he decided he wanted to sing Jackson's version of "Pop A Top".In B flat.

Fail.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Dave, I may be in the minority, but I'd rather hear a band put something of themselves into it, rather than try to recreate what Paul, Brent and Hank Singer (and crew) did ONCE (or maybe three times) in the studio, and probably wouldn't do it that way again. If I wanted to hear the record, I'd buy the damn record.
Just heard some bits of "Foreverly", the new record by Norah Jones and Billie Whoever from Green Day. They recreated the track list of "Songs Our Daddy Taught Us," but did them their own way (including getting the tempi of "Barbara Allen" and "Silver Haired Daddy" closer to what most folks have done). Sounds like a great album. It appears to have respected both the mid-century album and the much older origins of the songs at the same time.
I don't think that bar bands should be under any greater restrictions (although audience pressure can sometimes cause a reversion to the hit).
Obviously the same doesn't hold true for "tribute bands", but they aim at a different target. I don't think I'd want to be in a tribute band, not even a Ernest Tubb or Ray Price tribute band.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Lane,I'd think you're in the majority.Here at home,that is,where we all play,and some of us SGF'ers actually record those studio parts that the bar band players cover(me,I've always been in the latter group,never the former Winking

).It's true that Brent,PF,et al may well have played those parts only a time or two while they were tracking,but the artists' road bands will play those parts-as recorded-hundreds if not thousands of times,often through any number of complete personnel turnovers.OK,it is cool for folks like us to take a busman's holiday and appreciate what an ensemble of really good players can do with a song,but players on that level can,when they need to,produce what the customer heard on the jukebox.I do like what you said about audience pressure,though.Legally we're self-employed,but in the end the consumer is who we do work for.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

But the bottom line is, if you want to work, you will play the song as best you can IN THE SINGER'S KEY. If not, you will probably just be staying home and playing to Band-In-a-Box.

Also, I don't think many (if any) in the audience gives a damn if you don't do it in the same key as the record. I've been doing this for over 40 years, and have NEVER had someone come up and complain that the song was not in the same key as the record.

Am now listening to the Buck Owens recorded version of "Together Again" On YouTube. It's in C#. How many times have you backed a singer that did the song in C#. The singer in my band that does this song does it in G. I still do all the signature licks. Sure it may sound higher in pitch. But no one has ever said anything about the different key. Every band I have played in (that I can remember) always did it in G (and maybe C, but I don't remember ever playing it in C). And although there are several songs that have to have the signature licks, there is also a lot of room for me to add my stuff.

And remember, it is not your job to like the song (or key change). It's your job to play the song as best as you can to compliment the singer. There's about a half dozen, or more, songs that my classic country band does, that I hate with a passion. But, I am being paid to play the song, not to like it, and have to do my best, even with signature licks.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I think it makes more of a difference where in the singer's range they're at. Because if you're stretching to hit those notes, either at the top or bottom, you're gonna sound like that. I can sing Cal Smith in Cal's key, but I'm gonna croak 'em. If you want it to sound kinda like I'm in Cal's kinda zone, you're coming up a third (but I sing kinda high; I think Lane Turner puts "Little Book of Matches" somewhere between E and G and I have to do it in A, and I do Crazy Arms in A. I can do it in Ray's key's, but I sound like Clarence Henry doing it)
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Tommy Boswell · From: Virginia, USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Even though I do have the B to Bb on a pedal on my guitar, I never use it to play Together Again. I do like Brumley originally did and slide back one fret and hit the B pedal.

Tommy... You are a classic example of what we are talking about. You do it in C# because that is where your vocals lie. If I was hired to back you up, I better be able to play that song in your key.

And, never be afraid to say what you think of feel on here. I read everything, even if I don't agree. Your word is just as important as anyone else.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I'm trying to get my head around the notion that a singer is somehow inferior because their vocal range differs from that of the original artist!!

It's a good song? Okay, let's do it and let's find a key that's comfortable for whoever's doing the vocal. That way everyone wins, especially the listening audience.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

We NEED TO be able to play in any key. Period. As has been already mentioned, different singers have different ranges, and we need to accommodate them.

This is not negotiable.
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Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

It may sound a little harsh, Mike, but if one is unable at accompany someone in the key of their choice then that calls into question one's professional capabilities.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

My point, Dave, is that the chosen key is dependant on a singer's range.

Who's better - Paul McCartney or Paul Robeson? Smile

Just because a singer can't repicate the original key it doesn't make them inferior - just different. Neither does it mean that they shouldn't attempt the song - it's only pop music, after all.

(Of course, they may also be inferior - that's a whole 'nuther matter... Surprised

)
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

True again,Roj,but I would not look forward to hearing a(hypothetical)"Robeson Does McCartney" tribute. Wink

Sean Borton · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

This is getting too pedantic. I suppose you're right if it's to be a faithful copy of the original but I'd prefer to think that at least a breath of actual originality is permissable.

I like Richard Sinkler's point - no-one in the audience could care less what key you're playing in.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Well,we ARE kind of adducing evidence to prove which number of angels can dance upon a needle's point,and I'm a little chagrined to have participated in hijacking the OP's point just a leeetle bit.He did ask if it was common for a tune to be bowdlerized to suit the six-string player.My experience is that there are a lot of capable six-stringers out there(including present company when we're not busy playing steel)and IMO it's unlikely a tune gets dumbed down on the six-stringer's account.

Too loud on the six-stringer's account is an entirely different discussion.

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