| Author |
Topic: Pedalboard From Beyond |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Aug 2007 9:48 am |
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click here for some more shots: Pedalboard photos
The formatting of the webpage got weird but I'm too bored to figure it out.
The problem----I am usually in either an expansion mode (rig getting bigger and bigger) or a minimalist mode (less is better). Somehow I got into both modes at pretty much the same time--a definite personal system malfunction. I was buying stomp boxes and running out of space to mount them on my little pedalboard and new musical situations required fingertip control, from song to song, of various stomp boxes, both on/off and parameter controls. Right within the same month that I completed this stand-up pedalboard, I bought a PODxt and it has become my prime rig for now.
The goal in designing this pedalboard:
--maximum efficiency of space utilization
--quick setup
--minimal exterior size/shape change and no break-off appendages
--pedal orientation so that all controls are fingertip accessible and the on/off switches can be hand-squeeze activated (stiff foot switches just don't work well by hand)
--FX loops (2) so that different patches can be pre-set and so that entire chains of effects can be cut out of the signal path.
--multiple powering options---Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 is hidden under something there and a junction box routes power from another 9V source
This board has a Crate Powerblock on it so that even though the board is a large piece of gear, the amp head is self contained. Remove the Crate and there's a world of space for more stomp boxes......steady, Jon, steady....
If I were actually using this thing then I'd be modifying the external hardware---the legs work but aren't as good as they could be. Might even redo the swing-out shelves--it works but the design could be more elegant.
disclaimer: because this never really went into service, I never got around to cleaning up the lead dress---all the signal and power cords would be routed nicely and retained by some hardware that I didn't get around to installing.
The folly of designing this thing and retiring it virtually unused---well, I feel more than a little ridiculous. But although there's a lot to be said for stomp boxes, fact is, none of these are boutique anyway---the only thing that could maybe justify choosing to use them. I would much prefer this to the POD if all things were equal but size/weight/convenience realities make these things so unequal as to be pretty much no contest.
Anyway, I've been meaning to show this thing so here it is. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 18 Aug 2007 4:47 am
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| bump to share the pain |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 18 Aug 2007 6:01 am
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| Jon, that is a serious looking pedal board. I use a Power Block also with a single 15" speaker for small gigs and a Boss 3 pedal case with a TU-2 tuner, RV-5 and DD-2. Minimal is good word. |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2007 6:29 am
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Fun pics Jon.
As a novice player, I couldn't imagine having enough brain power to split my concentration between the wall of stomp, a steel bar to properly locate and picking the proper strings (often 1 string adjacent to a dissonant string)...ALL AT THE SAME TIME! Plus what if a cord came unplugged!
Warning: Expansion mode and minimalist mode together can lead to undue stress mode.
Brian |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 11:25 am
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| I really enjoy using Leslie simulators. I am finding myself less than satisfied with the PODxt's Leslie. It's a decent ambient effect but it doesn't have the impact of my Rotosphere for ripping leads. So I was thinking that maybe I could use the xt but have the H&K on the side. And I have a nice Keeley DS-1 that would be nice to use. And a couple of other stomp boxes that I really like. Oh yeah, and the Matchbro----I know--I can velcro the POD onto the pedalboard! Now we're talking! |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 1:16 pm
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| Michael Douchette wrote: |
| Just MHO... but if ya have to have that much stuff to run through... you're not interested in music on steel guitar. You're love is sound effects... nothing wrong with that at all, but... |
I have a bet going with a couple of pickers. Thanks Mikey. That's going to make one of us a few bucks. |
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Aaron Harms
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 1:28 pm
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You could actually install that entire pedal board ON TO a Leslie cabinet. Drape it over the side, and have your other effects on TOP, thus complicating both setup and back pain. But OH what a beautiful morning when you cranked it up!! Never have to worry about getting drowned out by that damn lead player..
...Mmmmm...sound effects...
A |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 1:35 pm
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Aaron
I....AM.....SO.....THERE!!!
Never owned actually owned a Leslie though. Played a lounge gig when I was like 16 in a soul band, playing the house B-3 w/ Leslie (my personal rig was a Farfisa mini-comact so this was the other side of heaven) and I think life has been all about trying to recapture some of that weekend magic, ever since. |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 1:49 pm
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Interesting setup, Jon.
But don't you find that putting other things in line sucks the tone out of your rig ?
I've stayed closer to your "minimalist" idea, to the point where, if I need a MatchBro or a Rat on the job, it remains wired-up but disconnected until the particular tune I need it for... then popped into the loop and removed right afterward.
I'm no electronics guru, but even the things that promise "true bypass"... well... I'm suspicious, and my ears tell me different.
Having said all that, I'd love to try a H&K Rotosphere sometime.
By the way, I noticed by your bar hand in your avatar that you have developed a condition brought on by many hours of digging old Blue Note records, known as "Monk Elbow". Apparently there are medications for that... they don't cure it, but they do make other people more interesting. 
-John |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 2:02 pm
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Um, I do have some appreciation of what you are trying to do, Jon, although I would like to hear some samples of your music to have a better idea. Unlike in traditional country music, in modern rock (post-punk, electronica, art-rock, etc.), hip-hop, and experimental jazz and classical music, there is a lot of effects experimentation going on. It is an integral part of these genres. And Brooklyn is a world class hotbed of these genres. Basically it comes down to playing multiple instruments together. One is the source instrument(s), and one is the effects. This is not only the norm, but is pretty much mandatory in these genres.
At a recent Cowboy Junkies concert, the lead guitar had his own accomplice. Between songs, and sometimes within songs, the accomplice handed the guitarist different guitars (different tones and tunings), picks and slides, and placed different effects units and different pedal boards at his feet. The accomplice obviously had an intricate knowledge of the whole dang program. At some concerts I am amazed at the way guitarists work an array of stomps with their feet, while playing impressive guitar with their hands. This all started back with Hendrix and beyond. Hendrix was a notorius gadget freak and tried every new thing that came along. Of course, he was also a virtuoso guitarist with many years of exerience in R&B before branching out into rock (a minor point many rock beginners overlook).
On pedal steel, you pretty much have to do it all with your hands, although a stomp or two near your volume pedal and outside your A pedal can work. Also, I can work a few stomps by hand when they are on the floor next to my seat. A low shelf would make this easier. And for several boxes, I can see the advantage of a vertical array.
You can maybe do most of what you want with a POD, but it is not as obvious and intuitive as hitting stomp buttons and tweaking their simple controls. Working multiple effects with a POD would require a good bit of practice time, like learning a new instrument. However, one of the advantages of the POD approach is the almost infinite number of preset combinations of effects that can be setup. But the quality of many of the POD effects are a compromise compared to dedicated individual stomp boxes. As long as you are going down this road, why not have a POD for whatever you can get with it, and also have a bunch or individual boxes for things that aren't so great on the POD?
I say, if you can handle it all, go for it. A variety of effects are an interesting part of a lot of new music. I'm still struggling to get as good on pedal steel as I need to be. I mostly use amp reverb and a single good distortion box (Seymour Duncan Twin Tube). I bring along the POD for reverb with some amps that have broken reverb. My playing is mostly not good enough to benefit from many effects. To me effects are sort of like icing on the cake, and I'm still working on the cake. Pedal steel is sort of like a whole bag of effects within itself. But if guitar players are making their music more interesting with multiple effects, why should we not also take advantage of the technology? |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 2:11 pm
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John---The tone thing---that's part of the roller coaster ride of minimalist (steel>vol pedal>amp with only occasional insertion of something or another) and FX clusterf*** with sonic purity going out the window. It's been a while since I did a real country gig--I'm not sure what I'd carry for that but lord knows I wouldn't be called on to use 99% of the stuff on the board or the POD. But with this new band (that has no guitar so I'm in a Sneaky Pete sort of role), I've got a set with a song using a dirty tremolo patch followed by a heavy wet slapback song followed by a chorused patch followed by fairly straight steel----I love having this-all at my fingertips.
On that pedalboard, everything is either true bypass or on a switchable fx loop so I can pretty much pare the signal path down. But it does go into the Crate head which I think is outstanding but is by no means pristine or sparkling. It is a concession to the reality that I am coloring the sound and not concentrating on pure tone. For this application.
That elbow thing----funny thing is that I just saw some video of me and actually it's usually my picking elbow that's flying. It is so damned wrong. I may try to fix it but I'm not getting any younger. And now that you've invoked Thelonious, it's a bit unlikely that I'll do anything but embrace the quirk and be quick to tell critics "what--you don't dig Monk?!" |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 2:20 pm
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David--thanks. My one response is re: the POD----I've been working a lot with it. Primarily pre-programming stuff for use with this band. I've learned a lot about how to make things really flexible---patches with effects that can be switched in & out, adjacent patches that can be switched back & forth with subtle differences, and preset FX patches that can be selected----as the manual says, you can think of each FX patch as a unique pedalboard. I'm still working on creating an array of these patches. I'm pretty into this thing. And I'm digging the amp models too, to my surprise. Whether they are accurate or not, they have unique sonic personalities that I like to be able to mess with---including using different speaker cabs as eq presets.
Aw--this is today. Who knows what I'll be doing tomorrow.
This is how I access the POD---
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 2:56 pm
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"Variety is the spice of life "
I love seeing stuff like this ....Why not have as many sound makers hooked up to do different things ?... If you want to play clean , you can always plug into an A/B box and have one line going into a clean setup, and the other going into the twilight zone ..... I hook a lot of effects unit's up , and just turn off the lights !!....Punching whatever effect is in the line of fire ....It makes for some pretty strange music !!... Whatever put's a smile on your face !!....Sometimes you just have to be a wild and crazy guy !!.... Jim |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 3:12 pm
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Yep! 
Hey Michael--sincerely, thank you. One thing for sure---I'm just doing whatever it is that I'm doing. Someone out there is likely a better fit for your
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| I sincerely applaud guys like you that not just push the envelope, but rip the whole freakin' bottom right out of it. Steel guitar needs to survive, and it can't blossom in other fields without what you and others like you are doing. |
I, too, applaud them. I'm just playing music. No more. And no less. |
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Larry Weaver
From:
Asheville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 5:51 am
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Heya John,
Man, that is VERY inovative! I've been going around the block for the last year with my rig and I can see now that I should have definitely been comparing notes with you from the beginning! 
I really like the way your set up serves as it's own self contained unit.
Keep us posted on it's development!
best,
LarryW |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 7:41 am
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I bet it wouldnt be hard to wire in a remote switch for all your effects (like Neil Youngs "whizzer").
You'd then have a row of buttons that would turn on and off easily with the press of a finger, mounted at hand height, while keeping your effects pedals on the floor in a nice tidy little box.
Ideally, you'd buy diy effects and house them in one metal housing...fuzz, compressor, delay, rotovibe, whatever...kind of like your own custom made multi-effects unit but with real quality individually chosen effects hand built, true-bypass, all that....then there'd be a fexi hose housing the remote switch wiring up to a small remote mountable switching board with soft buttons. But the whole thing could be cobbled together with whatever you have.
just a thought...
check out this guys diy effects.
http://buildyourownclone.com/ |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 11:52 am
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I've got a BYOC delay sitting on my workbench somewhere under something. Bought it thinking it would be a great idea. And it would have been if I had, like, built it. In the year and a half I've had it I've gained a valuable bit of insight-----these things don't build themselves. Who knew?
Funny--this is the second time I've heard of Neil's rig---first time was yesterday when a friend mentioned it.
Trouble with a remote set up is that I'm always evolving a sound so I can't be setting and forgetting--I need the tweaks (speed/intensity/wet/dry/gain/etc.) aÏt my fingertips. I imagine that Neil has honed his sets down to exactly what sound he wants for each & every song.
I will repeat---I am digging the POD a lot. For the amp models as well as the effects. But now (especially with some of the nice comments coming from you guys) I'm getting my interest back up for this board rig and I think I'll get back to work on it, at least to shake out the bugs and have it gig-worthy.
The bugs-----the legs need improvement and there's some hum that is most likely a lead routing issue but it could be power supply related so I've got to chase that down. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 1:37 pm
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I built that delay Jon. Its a really nice analog sounding delay but with more delay time than your typical vintage analog delay. You should take the plunge and go ahead and build that sucker. I know how it is tho, cause Ive had a
Monte Alum mod kit for my tubescreamer for over a year now and havent bothered to put it together. Come to think of it I still havent replaced my scratchy volume pedal pot either.... 
POds are great, some of the effects in em are really nice, especially the delays. But do you find you can switch thru the effects quickly and easily enough while you are playing?
What I'd consider building for psg if I had the time money and gumption is a three or four effect enclosure with tuner, that could be mounted at steel height, have soft finger pushable buttons, and you could even still have the control knobs for the various effects parameters, delay time, modulation speed etc etc right there at your fingertips as well. Just picture four of your favortie stomboxes in one tidy space and weight saving enclosure mountable at hand height, with soft finger pushable buttons. It would be lightwieght and compact enough to mount on one of those pod brackets.
Like you said tho...it aint gonna build itself.heehee. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 1:56 pm
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This was another train of thought. It worked well for a very limited number of FX but I never solved the problem of safe transit----jamming it into a duffel was dicey at best. I used this rig for a couple of months, a few years ago.
The PODxt requires some homework but if the time is spent, you can set it up for specific needs and also for on-the-fly quick access. My post above---the one with the pic of the POD rig---describes some of the different ways it can be setup. I'd be more than happy to elaborate but I'm not looking to bore people unless someone specifically wants to know. |
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Aaron Harms
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 3:12 pm
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The Floating pedals frighten me. 
I've been working through becoming a seated player for about three years now, and as David said earlier, I'm still not good enough for the effects that I use, but...sometimes people just eat the icing..my kids sure do.
The leslie cab was a joke, but I had one for awhile, and it, along with seeing Ben Harper in a live show, clued me in on "table space". Your vertical space to me seems really useful, in that, sure, there's only so much floor space. I cover all the electric sounds my current band has, as we've only been a trio for awhile, and more typically a duo. Usually, I put some pedals on top of my ampeg gemini II, as it's the perfect height for me to slap them, from the steel seat, and then box myself in a' la Ben Harper, where the speaker is hitting me in the butt.
I usually strew pedals for bass and guitar off to the left of the steel, so i can turn and access them if need be. There IS a lot of twisting and turning though--if you had something violently huge--the leslie, for instance--you'd have serious space on top for a couple levels of gear--particularly if you could swap out for soft switches or toggles. I've found that in the flurry of "rocking" it's easier to slap a toggle than gently press a switch...just me and the adrenaline though...
I too need that real time adjustment though--so i need the amp close, and the pedals closer...soon someone will have this all figured out..i really think so...
To diverge just a sec--Peter Timmins from the Cowboy Junkies is one of the unsung hero guitar players--I'd be interested to have seen the way his show works....I've never heard his tonal choices be anything but impeccable..IMO of course.
If only you had someone to backpack that leslie cab out to the stage when you need it, Jon!
A |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 3:18 pm
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Thats a cool mounting system in that last pic Jon.
I would dig something just like that for myself.
For transport for effects boards of all sizes i use old small hardshell suitcases purchased for $5 or less at the goodwill store. Glue a lil foam into the suitcase and your good to go for under $10, plus it holds all your cables and maybe a beer or two
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2007 7:59 am
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I've pretty much gone over to the modeling dark side myself. I have boxes full of stompboxes, but the interactivity and interconnectedness gets so freaky after a while that you, like, really have to prefer messing with your toys to actually making good notes come out, because for me the toy-messing comes at the expense of practice time. Re-amplifying the signal 4 or 5 times doesn't do much for the soulfullness....
I have a PODxt that works well for steel, and my preference for standard guitar (this week) is a Digitech RP250. I even have a Behringer V-Amp 2 that's good for my heavy metal pretensions, the notion of extremely high-fidelity fuzztone seems pretty bizarre if you think about it. After all, if you want nasty distortion and weird noises, shouldn't you be using the absolutely cheapest things you can find? I agree completely with Jon that the "amp models" might not be really accurate, but who cares, if they're tonally useful? The notion of "true", "natural" tube tone always seemed ridiculous to me, every tube amp I've ever seen had a bunch of transistors in it. There's good sounds, bad sounds, good bad sounds, and the only truly pure sound - dead silence. |
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