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Topic: The Byrd's with Gram Parsons |
Josh Haislip
From:
Midland, Texas
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 7:42 am |
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During a recording interview with Gram following the Sweetheart record, he talked about playing the Opry with the Byrds and pissing off Tompall Glaser by playing Hickory Wind for his grandmother instead of playing Sing me back home.
During this performance on the Opry who was playing steel with the Byrd's? Green? Manness? Nobody? And are there any recordings of this show? |
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Mike Winter
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 8:49 am
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| Pretty sure it was Lloyd. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 9:27 am
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It certainly was Lloyd Green. According to Lloyd, he was asked to actually join the Byrds for a tour but declined due to his busy session schedule. I think Gram called him at his house and asked him about joining, and would he be willing to grow his hair out a bit for the shows. This was after the Byrds had cut their hair for the Opry show. 
Lloyd, if you're reading this, I hope it's all correct. 
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 10:45 am
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That's an interesting but pretty disgusting story if true, Chris.
I'd hate to think they were such easy sell outs. Was that post Crosby? |
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Stephanie Carta
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 12:12 pm
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
That's an interesting but pretty disgusting story if true, Chris.
I'd hate to think they were such easy sell outs. Was that post Crosby? |
Roger McGuinn has said that what the Byrds were always trying to do was not get pinned down into one style of music. Once a style such as folk rock and country rock was pinned on them, they did something different.
They weren't sell outs at all. It was brave for a 'rock' band to go on the Opry. It was brave for Mr. Green to play with them too! Yes, they cut their hair, a little. Heck, the folkies, which is what Roger and Gene were before the Byrds, thought folk-rock was a sell out.
The bravest act of all was bringing country rock back in the mid 80s after the Byrds and Flying Burrito Brothers didn't have a lot of commericial success with it and the Eagles turned it to mush. The Desert Rose Band came back with the real thing, introducing a whole new generation to it (myself included). Jay Dee Maness was the first guy I ever heard play a PSG. John Jorgenson was the first Tele picker I'd seen in person. It was all pointy headstocks back then, not Telecasters or Rickenbackers.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/thedesertroseband |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 2:46 pm
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
That's an interesting but pretty disgusting story if true, Chris.
I'd hate to think they were such easy sell outs. Was that post Crosby? |
Geez, Ron, pretty harsh assessment with the "disgusting " angle...not sure exactly where you're comin' from. 
And yes, it was post Crosby...
Think about it for a minute: they record this decidedly non-commercial album that flips about 180 degrees from what was the best selling music of that era, in terms of the rock music genre. Columbia allowed them to make that album - no way would that happen in today's music industry!
Asking a well-known pedal steel player to grow his hair out a bit if he were to join them on tour - seems like a minor footnote to that part of the band's history.
_________________
Mark |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 3:23 pm
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All points taken, and agreed to.
I still live in the summer of '70, and the thot of cutting my hair for anybody, well, it just ain't gonna happen, even tho I would in a second if I could suddenly play like any of my heros.
SELL OUT!
Carry on. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 3:32 pm
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Remember, Crosby's song "Almost Cut My Hair" may not have been released at that point by CSN, so maybe people weren't yet thinking of "letting my freak flag fly..."
_________________
Mark |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 3:38 pm
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...and if you remember the photos of The Byrds from The Notorious Byrd Brothers, the previous album, their hair wasn't very long anyway, but maybe a bit too long for the Opry folks.
A couple years later until the end of The Byrds, during the McGuinn-Clarence White-Skip Battin-Gene Parsons era, those guys had really long hair, and a lot of facial hair to go with it. Might not have even let them cross the Nashville city limits at that point, let alone play on the Opry! 
_________________
Mark |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 5:00 pm
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Sellout? Spare me. The fact they were invited to play the Opry at all was one of the most revolutionary occurrences in popular music. It opened the door for all the previously mentioned bands (and I have to agree the Eagles almost put it in a coffin once Bernie was gone).
One of the bravest things a musician has ever done - potentially a career-jeopardizing move - was Lloyd Green playing on stage at the Opry with a "bunch of hippies". His action that day changed the music scene forever...I do not mean that as an exaggeration at all.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 5:45 pm
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Spare you what, Jim? You'd cut your hair cuz some square said to?
I already bowed to the replies, and you have a good point too.
But I still say they should have told him to bug off, and then put some drums on that stage. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 8:23 pm Just in From Mr. Green
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Here is a vignette from Lloyd concerning the topic at hand:
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Chris,
When Gram Parsons called me he was speaking for the Byrds. The tour they were asking me to play with them would have been the soon aborted world tour. Music historians have subsequently dealt with all the issues about why that tour never happened and Grams departure from the Byrds.
Anyhow, Gram asked me very quietly if I would consider playing the tour with them. Before I could answer he added, "Lloyd, if you agree to do this, would you have any objections to growing your hair a bit longer for the tour. If you go on stage with us with hair as short as yours, you'll be booed by our fans just like we were on the Opry."
I told him I had absolutely no objections to growing it a little longer and would do so if I were to play the tour, but there was a problem. I said I couldn't leave the studio recording scene for such a lengthy time, I was simply too busy. He understood, we had small talk for a few minutes and the conversation was finished.
It didn't require any bravery for me to play on the stage of the Opry with those guys. I really liked them, we had been recording together for about a week and I thought it was cool that they wanted play there. In that era I was young, knew no fear and certainly had no idea they would receive such an insulting response. In any event, it wouldn't have influenced my decision to play the Opry with them.
During that time I wasn't intimidated nor afraid of anyone in a musical setting. In fact, when I went into the recording studios I was treated with the same deference and respect Brent Mason, the guitarist, is accorded today. I was never told what nor how to play but instead, asked for my ideas of how we should cut a particular record. The difference; that was the golden era for steel guitar. Steel was king. Today, guitar is dominant. It was the most wonderful time imaginable to be a recording steel guitarist. So, brave? Nah, I was just doing my thing.
Regards,
Lloyd Green
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_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2007 10:29 pm
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Ron - the "spare me" was simply because I consider it an insipid comment that shows a distict lack of knowledge of the situation - further evidenced by your "drums" commnet..
If you knew the environment at the Opry in those days, which has been well documented, it wasn't a "sellout" or "doing what the squares tell you to". And If you'd hauled drums up, you'd have had them...and yourself...just as quickly tossed off the stage.
McGuinn and Hillman have discussed at length in interviews why they did it - Hillman especially saw the possibility for some tearing down of the barriers that existed.
Sometimes - just sometimes - if you want to get some exposure you have to play by a "rule of the house" or two. You want touse phrases akin to "maintaining you musical integrity" or some such drivel and play to people disguised as empty seats, that's your choice - but calling someone a sellout who chooses to respect some traditions in order to get some exposure just sounds like some kid who doesn't like the way the lines were drawn - so he took his ball and went home to mama.
I'm the first one to admit not exactly following the crowd - but in a situation like that where you have a chance for exposure at the most respected venue for a type of music you're "melding" yourselves with, it's not necessarily a business decision - it's a musical one. If you don't flex a bit, you don't expose YOUR version of a style to an audience that would otherwise never, ever, hear of you - at all.
So they showed a little respect a deference...got treated well be a few poeple, especially the musicians...but got lambasted by that bigoted windbag Ralph Emery - and in that case McGuinn gave him the b**ch-slap he deserved in the "Drug Store Truck Drivin' Man"...especially calling him out be name.
The Byrds did what they could to try to be accomodating ("sellout" might as well be coming from a 180-degree opposite of Emery).
You want to live in the 70's and not cut your hair, be a revolutionary - goody for you. It certainly explains your attitude - dude, don't let "the man" tell you what to do! Hey - if you have any Fender steel parts, let me know - I can trade you for parts for your VW bus...or a pair of Earth Shoes.....
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Joe Shelby
From:
Walnut Creek, California, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 12:41 am Lloyd Green--Sweetheart of the Rodeo
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Chris, thanks for posting Lloyd's experience re the
Byrds playing on the Opry, and his comments on being
asked to tour with them.
Lloyd is always such a gentleman when he relates his
knowledge, I think we are all lucky to hear his recollections here.
I have heard that Jay Dee was also asked to perform
with them in LA (after Sweetheart was finished) and either went to hear the Byrds and decided it was too loud, or actually did one night with them and found the volume overpowering.
I wish I could remember exactly what was told to me
about that.
Joe. |
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Josh Haislip
From:
Midland, Texas
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 11:30 am
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Jim,
Could you expand more on the Byrds story with Ralph Emery, and "Drug Store Truck...", I have always been interested in this story and have never really heard anything in depth about it, other than Gram saying "when I was in fear of losing my life..." |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 11:35 am
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Josh - To get it really accurately, you should ask Jason Odd. He's the resident musicologist and can do a much better and more accurate job than I can.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 1:45 pm
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| Quote: |
| According to Lloyd, he was asked to actually join the Byrds for a tour. . . |
Interesting thread, and I wonder if this request was made prior Flying Burrito and All That (at which turn and interestingly enough, I began to lose interest).
If it was, I can see it easily. Right from their folk-rock early days, I've always felt the best thing they could have done was to have a steel in the band. Electric 12-string was revolutionary enough, but paired with a steel, would we have recovered yet! |
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Rich Weiss
From:
Woodland Hills, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 2:07 pm
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I found this on Wikipedia
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Nearly as disastrous was the group's appearance on the WSM program of legendary Nashville DJ Ralph Emery, who continually mocked his guests throughout the interview and initially refused to play an acetate of "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere." Eventually playing the record, he shockingly dismissed it over the air and in the presence of the band as being mediocre. Clearly upset by their treatment, upon returning to Los Angeles, Parsons and McGuinn would make Emery the intended subject of their oft-covered "Drug Store Truck Drivin' Man" ("He's a drug store truck drivin' man/He's the leader of the Ku Klux Klan," although it should be noted that Emery was not a Klansman).
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Greg Simmons
From:
where the buffalo (used to) roam AND the Mojave
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 2:08 pm
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When the Drug Store Truck Drivin' Man gets inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame I wonder if they’ll include a clip of that Nashville Now interview segment in his career retrospective video ...you know the one:
Ralph Emery: “So Chris, how’s Gram doing these days?”
Chris Hillman: “He’s still dead, Ralph...”
_________________
<i>�Head full of this kaleidoscope of brain-freight, Heart full of something simple and slow�</i>
-Mark Heard
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Stephanie Carta
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 4:24 pm
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| James Cann wrote: |
| Right from their folk-rock early days, I've always felt the best thing they could have done was to have a steel in the band. Electric 12-string was revolutionary enough, but paired with a steel, would we have recovered yet! |
The Desert Rose Band did that on their records. The first three with Jay Dee are absolute classics. The fourth is okay. There's no steel on it except for a session player. I don't know why but it's missing something. The fifth, Life Goes On, with Tom Brumley is wonderful and more like a Hillman/Pedersen album than a DRB album.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/thedesertroseband |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 8:08 pm
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The Wikipdeia story Rich posted is pretty much how I remember the story, although I till wish Jason would catch this thread and chime in...Wikipedia stuff is based on whatever the poster says, so it can be woefully inaccurate at times.
However, there's no dispute about the way Emery treated the band n the show. Another reason I find "sellout" sucha distateful term. The Byrds at least had the class to try to work with the system a bit and be respectful - Ralph Emery was obvously just the epitome of a bigoted, classless redneck.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 11 Aug 2007 8:31 pm
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Apparently off-topic.......edit.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 13 Aug 2007 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tom anderson
From:
leawood, ks., usa
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Posted 12 Aug 2007 7:18 pm opry
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| Back to the question: are there any existing recordings of this show by the Byrds on the opry??? Did they tape & save show's? |
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 13 Aug 2007 6:15 am Opry, etc.
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Sell-out, what a quaint old term.
Okay, the main question.. Opry shows and live recordings.
Considering the Opry has been active since the 1920s and remains so, and that I've never seen a live at the Opry anything.. CD, LP, transcription disc, etc., I would guess no.
If memory serves me right, the Hank Williams radio spots that were compiled for commercial issue, are not actual Opry broadcasts. I simply cannot think of anything emerging from any sort of Opry archive or vault. I may well be proved quite wrong on this, but for my two cents, there's no Opry Byrds broadcast or otherwise. The real reasoning is that if they existed, these various recordings would see commercial release.
From what I know, the best Opry document from that period is the footage from the film "The Nashville Sound" (1970, and 1972 re-distribution) which was filmed around the Opry and the 1969 DJ convention. Lots of cool stuff, the Earl Scruggs Revue, Lester Flatt & The Nashville Grass (although I don't think they had that name yet), Bill monroe And His Blue Grass Boys, Johnny Cash and band, Jimmy Riddle, Ed Bruce, Porter Wagoner, the Wagonmasters & Dolly Parton, Tompall & the Glaser Brothers, Roy Acuff, etc.
Drums, guitars, fiddles, the Glasers wonderful rich folk-country pop harmonies, Johnny Cash's band with new boy Bob Wooten on lead guitar, essentially a lot of bands with full drumkits and honky-tonk in their heart.
There's also radio spots and plenty of the Opry corn, shots of the crowd... essential stuff, and that doesn't include the fanfair stuff, producers and behind the scenes goodies. Check it out, it's now on DVD.
Back to the Byrds:
As I recall Jay Dee was offered a gig, there was even a story going around years ago that Sneaky Pete got offered a slot as well, in the end they settled with Doug Dillard on electric banjo. I don't believe any of them were offered a full time gig, and I do believe that Jay Dee thought they were loud and unfocussed as a live band. From a guy working with a top notch bar band, at the Aces, it took Buck Owens and his top notch touring band, The Buckaroos, to convince him to move to a touring and recording act.
I think catching a live show by the 1968 Byrds would have been a revelation or a bitter dissapointment, depending on each punter's viewpoint.
They apparently played the Troubador in '68, that, Dillard & Clark's debut at the venue, plus the debut gigs by the Flying Burrito Brothers and Poco (as Pogo) at the same venue in late '68, helped change the whole L.A. scene.
The 'Sweetheart' album of course was their first album since the debut to drop in sales from the preceeding album, but a massive influence all the same.
A lot of the Byrds/G.P. stories have started to blend over the years, to the point of serious factual blurring, so I try not to get into it too much.
j.
(edited because I wrote Hank Thompson instead of Hank Williams!) |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2007 9:58 am Re: Opry, etc.
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| Jason Odd wrote: |
I think catching a live show by the 1968 Byrds would have been a revelation or a bitter dissapointment, depending on each punter's viewpoint. |
As I remember from the Grande Ballroom in 1968, they were just kinda unorganized, low energy, and boring. |
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