Rickenbacher plates and then some !

Loni Specter · From: West Hills, CA, USA

As most of you know I have posted that I wanted a set of metal plates for a Carcass" bakelite that I was given. I also needed a pickup and every thing else to complete the guitar.
Well yesterday I ventured down to Santa Monica for a vintage guitar show and low and behold, there were the parts I needed, ALL OF THEM!
The only problem was that they were attached to a complete guitar. ;-{
The complete guitar had the misfortune of having the neck broken at the body juncture and was repaired by someone other than the person I bought the guitar from, forum member Robert Szpuk. I spent a long time discussing and negotiating price with Robert and he proved to be a shrewd but reasonable man. I like him a lot and recomend him as a reliable source for all matters lap steel and also old amps.
The repair was reinforced with 2 large screws through the heel of the neck. BTW I have read the posts on repair without using rods or screw elswhere on the forum, so no need to coment.
I will transfer all the parts to my unbroken body serial# B707
the broken body is ser# C1199
Does anyone know what year these were made. The broken guitar came with an original sales reciept dated August 13, 1937 and a original case in good condition.
Are there any diferences in the parts that should be on the B707 guitar?

I'm still looking for parts to finish the, soon to be stripped, repaired body so... the beat goes on....

Also I was thinking of having the guitar re-finished with proper Fender paint. ...Just kidding!!!
Laughing

Loni Specter · From: West Hills, CA, USA

I thought you'd want to see the repair.
By the way, it sounds amazing as is!

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

Your guitar should be largely the same except it probably had only 1 knob (no tone control. The 2 control version started around C1200 by my records so it may be one of the first.
I am more interested in B707. I have heard of B serial bakelite guitars but never have seen one myself. If you are sure yours is a B number, then I suppose that before the production got under way some models were designated B (by 1935 frying pans were using A numbers). Being a model B, it kind of makes sense. More sense than model B having a C serial anyway.
Buy the way the earliest bakelite models did have different tuners and pat. pend. stamped on the pickup mount.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana.

Loni Specter · From: West Hills, CA, USA

Thanks John,
Here's a shot I just took of the ser. #. The verticle line that I see as the B staff, might just be a striation in the material, but it looks like a B to me, or else it would have to be the number three. What do you think? Also it does say Pat. number on the bridge.

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

I'd sure like to nail this one down. It looks like B707 to me. The body looks like a '35-'38. Logic would make me think that B numbers came before C numbers, but with a number like B707, where are all the others? We see a (relative) lot of low C numbers from '35 considering how rare they are but if there were 700 B numbered units made, that is 2/3 the whole output of 1935 bakelite guitars. Where are they? Some other sequence must have been involved. Maybe the numbers of both frying pans and bakelite models were mixed with the preface A for pans and B for bakelite? Data. We need more data...
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana.

Loni Specter · From: West Hills, CA, USA

Perhaps the B actually stands for Bakelight and the first 7 stands for 1937 and the 07 stands for the 7th made that year? Remember this does have a Pat. No. designation, NOT pat. pending as you stated the earliest instruments have.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

As I've learned it, A's were for the fry-pan's, A-22/A-24 typifying the scale length's of thier first steels produced, B for the 2nd style of production models, B6/B7/B8 for # of strings, all were short scale. They didn't have model names and just used the A's and B's to for refference to avoid in-house confusion.

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

You are correct. Then bakelites had C numbers for whatever reason, D was for Silver Hawaiian, and E for model 59, metal body. Postwar they dropped the numbers.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

What year did the change to C's occur?

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

It would have to be 1935. I still wonder if the number sequence went:
A223- frying pan
A224- frying pan
B225- bakelite
B226- bakelite
A227- frying pan
... or something like that. As they finished the new bakelite guitars. Then they decided to number each series individually and used C01 to start over again with the bakelite series. That could acount for so few B number model Bs (maybe a few dozen perhaps?). I am just guessing but that might explain it. As for the number being part of a date code, I don't think so, they had no other date codes in their series (amps included) that early on.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana.

Loni Specter · From: West Hills, CA, USA

So we must assume there were over 1199 bakelights made by July/August of 1937! I bet a lot were broken and discarded due to their fragile nature.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Not that I'm disputing you, but I've never heard any of this.
What year was the first 7 string Bakelight's made, and same for 8 stringer's?
I've also don't recall having heard of a 7 or 8 string Bakelite called B7s or B8s, except by me..., and certainly not C7s or C8s.

Been a while since I've seen an interesting thread in Sw/oP. Thanx Loni!

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Among my wall hangings........I have three(3) seven string pre-war Bakelites. I have two with the single volume knob (the earliest model) and one with the two knobs on the far side away from the player, the last in that series. I'm missing the seven string model that JERRY BYRD once had, with a knob on each side of the pickup. I'm very depressed over this.
Might this info' help anyone?

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

wow Redlands, CA. I had a Rickenbacher Bakelite shipped to me there as well while I attended college.

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

A forum member used to have a prewar A-25 frypan ... with the serial number C2202,

Bill Creller refinished it and I fixed the pup.

It now belongs to one of my customers ...

I asked him if it could be a badly stamped/wore down "0" ...

And he substantiated the "C" ...

Here is the "misfit" ...

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/185U-346.htm

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

It's too bad the serial numbers are not gospel on the frypans. They seem to be non-consistant. Mine is a 30s 7 string with what appears to be s/n 124 with possibly a letter preceding the number. Not legible enough to tell if it's a letter, or what letter it is.
Post war types don't have any numbers (that I know of). Right now I'm doing a long-scale post-war for Bobby Ingano, modifying it to a 7 string and general clean-up and polish also. It had the small magnets, but now has the big ones I make, and Lollar coil winding.
Lots of work to do, like welding all the old holes shut, amd machining the pick-up opening slightly wider etc., and new tuner holes......and on and on....

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Well, hurry up, Bill. Bobby sez 'he know's' that is going to be his new #1.
And it'll have to be one (beyond) incredible guitar for it to be better than some of his other's.
Can't wait to see it!

Robert Szpuk · From: California, USA

hi loni, enjoyed our connection and conversation, unfortunately for me you were the only sale for the whole guitar show so thanks for the business. i really couldn't believe that my classic, vintage lap steels were disregarded at very reasonable prices. alas, i got new friends and pen pals and sold only my favorite guitar. business eludes me and i guess i can't afford to do any guitar shows. great to meet, rob. [slide zone] i'll call you if i find any more bakelite ric and amps sets for $70. i often wonder if the wallhanging collectors [no offense ray] consider keeping instruments out of the hands of players is an issue since resurrecting them and adoptions are my path. get them played, no?

Jeff Watson · From: Anza, CA. USA

Hey Ray if you check one of the guitars I passed on to you (a single knob 6 string w/oval metal tuning buttons) has a "B" series serial number.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Okay guys, here goes:
7 STRINGS:
B-742
C-959
C-4074

6 STRINGS:
B-326
C-1735
C-1855
C-1883
C-2215
C-1819

These are all Pre-War.......... No Panda's are listed here.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

What years are those, Ray? And, when did they start making the 8 stringers?

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

I have two post-war guitars, one with white plates, one with chrome plates, T-logos, narrow pickups, metal tailpieces, and no serial numbers.

My pre-war guitars are as follows:

I have C432 with chrome plates, small logo, strings through body, and a patent pending 1.5" pickup with both knobs on the treble side.

I also have C707 with chrome plates, small logo, strings through body, and patent numbered pickup (so it's post '37 (?) ) with knobs on either side of pickup.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I don't know WHAT YEAR they are. How does one telleth?

I know that I saw one 8-string, preWar......and it had both the strings thro' the body and the chrome tail piece, as an option. I would like to have had that one.........but the seller in Butte, MT, wanted a $1,000 for it, at the time. Now they're getting almost $2,000 for postWar Panda's.

Loni Specter · From: West Hills, CA, USA

Lookie what Irv bought!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190138556064&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

That's really a very nice one Loni, I envy him!! I've never had a pre-war model, but played enough of them to want one. Sad

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