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Topic: Look Who's Back! |
Archie Nicol R.I.P.
From:
Ayrshire, Scotland
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 12:37 pm |
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Dylan was appalling, the steel playing was even worse.
It's similar to the noise a cat makes when being dragged by its tail under a door |
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Mike Phillips
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 12:53 pm
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OK - certainly not the finest work by either the Dead or Dylan.
still, we're talking about 2 major figures of rock and roll, without whom the landscape of modern music would be very different - and not for the better. who among us here has a "Highway 61 Revisited" or "American Beauty" in them? .....
yeah, that's what i thought.
respect. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 12:57 pm
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| "Not the finest work"??? I haven't cringed that much in a long while. Garcia looks like he's just about to nod out--must've been a strong batch. Don't know what Dylan's excuse would be. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 2:14 pm
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I didn't find it appalling at all, in fact I guess I kinda liked it. Who says music has to be totally perfect and in tune. If that was true, the old time Delta Blues Players wouldn't have any musical validity at all! JG strayed away from pitch in some spots during his solo but it still wasn't that bad. Bob Dylan's is a true musical genius and one of the most important music figures of his time. I'd liked to have been at that concert and would have probably enjoyed it a lot. I've heard JG play better than that but that's not the point. I've heard some great players do some clams in their live shows so give him and Bob a break, they've paid their dues (Although Jerry ain't paid much lately).. I still love 'em both......JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 2:57 pm
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Seriously, if you walked into a bar and just some local band you'd never heard, or heard of, were playing this, what do you think your reaction would be?
Yes, in my opinion, too, these people contributed a lot of fine work to the music world, but that doesn't make this performance any better. It is what it is.
As has been discussed in threads here before, deep Delta blues isn't even supposed to be "in tune"--it's a different musical form altogether. I think it's quite a stretch to compare this to that. |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 5:58 pm
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| Lighten up. It's possible that Jerry is nodding out, and that would explain the sloppiness, Bob too, perhaps. It's no secret, but why beat-up on him? Those two men mean A LOT to so many people. Both Dylan and Jerry opened me up at a young formative age to what music and verse can be....I guess that's why I'm such a hack. Oh well.....I wouldn't trade those guys for anyone, and it ain't because of their fine musicianship. All my life I've heard people go on and on with glee about what a horrible singer Dylan is, and what a horrible and sloppy band the Dead were, what a hack Garcia was. Who here has even come close to standing in the shadow of what these guys have achieved? Well, either you get it or you don't. A few weeks back in Holllywood Porter Wagoner has a senior moment on stage: I don't recall anyone kicking him around for that. Respect. Jerry's probably on the nod, why kick him when he's down? Maybe not in this clip, but the man had a lot of soul, and it came through in his music and playing. I'm not saying that anyone is off limits, but people really go for a round on Jerry here. I am really sad he didn't make it. God bless Jerry Garcia. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 7:46 pm
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Geez, somebody posted a clip, I watched it, and said what I thought of it--the clip. Is this a "forum" or are we all just supposed to praise everything or shut up?
I recently said in a post that I would try not to post anything negative about members' music. Here I expressed my reaction to this specific performance by Bob Dylan, who I sincerely doubt ever looks at the Steel Guitar Forum, and Jerry Garcia, who I'm even more sure never does.
I made no blanket statements about the overall quality or value of those musicians in my initial post. I did in the second: "in my opinion, too, these people contributed a lot of fine work to the music world".
I had a poster of Jerry Garcia (the smiling portrait with the Uncle Sam hat) on my wall when I was sixteen. Though I was never a Deadhead, I saw the Dead live on a number of occasions in the Sixties and Seventies, including once when Garcia played steel with the NRPS as the opening act. I find his steel playing on "Dire Wolf" and, yes, even the dreaded "Teach Your Children" quite enjoyable. Bob Dylan was a huge influence in my musical and emotional life throughout my middle and later adolescence; I wore out my first copy of "Blonde on Blonde". I think Dylan's singing was excellent from "Bringing It All Back Home" through "New Morning" and I think beyond, though I turned my attention to other styles of music at that point and didn't follow and buy his albums after that. I continue today to enjoy listening to the Dead and Dylan in my collection.
It is with regret that I hear people whose music I've loved and respected perform so badly.
Excuse the heck out of me if I don't think that these worthies could do no wrong. |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 7:53 pm
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Well, people bash him a lot here. I wasn't trying to attack you, Brint, sorry if it came off that way. I too said it was sloppy, and he seems like he is on the nod. I've actually suspected that Jerry may have had a bad influence on Dylan because Dylan's music got more vibrant and lighter after Jerry was gone. I'm not trying to be a blind leg-humper, and debate is healthy, it's just that every couple of months people resurrect Jerry for some collective beating, and I don't get it in light of his importance.
Last edited by Cliff Kane on 24 Jul 2007 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 8:54 pm
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I thought MCI's were supposed to have great tone? Must be in the hands. 
Dylan sounds pretty much on par with the times I saw him live: '90, '97, '02. For the last 20 years, he's been in it for the chicks - and that's it.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 24 Jul 2007 10:21 pm
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| Jerry Hayes wrote: |
| Bob Dylan's is a true musical genius.... |
I beg to differ. Dylan is a genius, but his genius is as a wordsmith. Nobody can deny he has written some of the most important poetry of the last 50 years.
But his music? No way. Take away his lyrics and his songs cannot stand alone as instrumental pieces.
Stravinsky was a musical genius. Dylan is a poet.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 4:57 am
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Brint - no, you don't have to like it, and personally I don't mind negative reviews that are at least respectful. But if I didn't like something about a Buddy Emmons clip and posted these (modified) statements, what do YOU think wuld happen?
"I haven't cringed that much in a long while. Buddy looks like he's just about to nod out--must've been a strong batch."
"Don't know what Buddy's excuse would be."
Or substitue "Buddy" with the name of just about any long-time forum regular, name player, or one who posts their OWN clip and those comments would be deleted so fast it'd make your head spin.
Negative reviews and out-and-out insults are NOT the same thing. However, it seems that unless you're part of the "in-crowd" steel community, it's perfectly alright for established forum members to toss any crap they want in your direction.
It's very apparent to many that there are two sets of rules here.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Brian Herder
From:
Philadelphia, Pa. USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 5:13 am
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| No comment on genius, but as a song writer Bob Dylan has written some of the nicest melodies in popular music. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 5:28 am
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I like Jerry G.
This clip made me uncomfortable, he didn't look well.
I thought he quit Steel in the early 70s, but this clip is dated 15 years later.  |
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Dick Wood
From:
Springtown Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 5:54 am
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| Mike P hit it on the head but you got to give Jerry an "A" for at least trying. |
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Mike Phillips
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 6:22 am
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this instrument we have taken up (regardless of copedant, style of music, technique, etc...) is so challenging , humbling, and rewarding -- i feel like we're all just "trying to do our best" pretty much all of the time. that's what's so special about it to me at least. i don't have much interest in cutting someone down to size.
personally, i can't separate out Dylan's lyrics from his records. it's all part of the expression - his words, his bands, his attitude, persona, etc... it's no fun parsing out one part of that. i can't imagine how far i'd get reading through the lyrics to "Blonde on Blonde", but i never turn that record off once the needle (or laser) drops.
and i don't feel ashamed to say that Garcia's steel playing on "Teach Yr Children" and David Crosby's 1st solo record are extremely insprirational to me. because of his "limitations" he makes choices you don't hear elsewhere. |
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 6:31 am Playing
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| Y'all sure you didn't get beamed up into my living room and it was me playing. Thats what this description sounds like |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 7:14 am
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I would go back and delete the remarks that have been found "insulting" if they had not been referenced in a number of replies. I feel even now that they represent simply my reaction to the music in question (I will be sure to stifle any such henceforth), and actually an observation that I meant, believe it or not, as a mitigating factor--Jerry wasn't really that bad a steel player, he just happened to be out of it on this occasion.
Jim, if you think I'm part of some "insider" group, or an "established" member of the Forum (I joined six months after you), you don't know what you're talking about, and you clearly haven't really read my posts. Take another look at my previous one, for example. My little bit of autobiography--does that suggest to you that I'm part of this hide-bound insider clique you rail against? I'm just a guy who joined the Forum, and has made the mistake of feeling too comfortable participating. I will be MUCH more circumspect in the future.
 Have a nice Forum, everybody! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 7:33 am
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Bob Dylan has given a lot of marginal performances. I've never seen him live, but all of my friends who have were disappointed.
Jerry Garcia was a great musician, and a passable but not great steel player. This appears to have been recorded more than a decade after he "gave up" playing pedal steel. Sounds to me like he's way out of practice.
The Grateful Dead had a way of moving seamlessly from folk to rock to whatever that thing was that they did. That was part of the charm of a GD concert. Certainly just seeing Uncle Bob on stage with them must have been a thrill to many Dead heads. The quality of the performance was secondary.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 8:03 am
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Jerry did a passable job in the beginning of the song (for a steel beginner), though it kinda fell apart at the end. Keep in mind, he fully admitted he'd never be a great steeler, or even a good one. In past threads, some players have made comments like "Jerry was one of the greats of pedal steel", and that has turned a lot of players off because that's certainly not the case. But he did inspire a lot of young players, and to me that's his true legacy, those players who got interested in steel because of him, and took it farther than he ever could. I, too, am not a great player (and never will be), but I hope that somewhere along the way, I've inspired someone in similar fashion.
Dylan is, to my mind, kinda like Mike said - a great poet. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 8:35 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
Dylan is a genius, but his genius is as a wordsmith. Nobody can deny he has written some of the most important poetry of the last 50 years.
But his music? No way. Take away his lyrics and his songs cannot stand alone as instrumental pieces.
Stravinsky was a musical genius. Dylan is a poet. |
A musical genius he is not, but his compositions do stand up well in the folk/rock genre. At a party last year, Nancy and I jammed along to Blond On Blond. We were struck by a sophistication in the chord progressions that isn't at all obvious to the casual listener.
I think that his lyrics are so great that nobody really hears his music. Bob Dylan learned music well enough to use it as a vehicle for his poetry. He took the music seriously enough to do it correctly, but nothing more. Had he decided to explore music as an artform, he probably never would have become the icon that he is today.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Chuck Thompson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 9:15 am
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| this reminds of how much i love dylan songs......................... when someone else sings them - neil young, k kristofferson, t vanzandt for that matter too |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 9:18 am
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I heard he had a woman in every town....trust me, he's in it for the chicks.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 9:37 am
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| Brint Hanney wrote: |
| I'm just a guy who joined the Forum, and has made the mistake of feeling too comfortable participating. |
Brint, you just keep on posting whenever you like. Nobody owns this forum (Well, b0b does, but that's not what I mean,) and you have as much right to your thoughts and opinions as anybody and everybody else here.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
Last edited by Mike Perlowin on 25 Jul 2007 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 25 Jul 2007 9:41 am
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I've mostly heard reviews of modern-day Dylan concerts as fair to poor, but I saw him in Edmonton in 2003 and he was ON. He even sang most of the songs. Great band, too.
In Dylan's chronicles, he states that the Dead kicked his butt into playing a lot of his 'best' tunes again (and not necessarily his 'best known') and that changed the course of his performing career for the better, even if the immediate results showed no sign of that. See above link for example.
I was pretty surprised to see that Jerry played steel onstage in the mid eighties. I guess he was brave after having to relearn the guitar after his coma... Then again, apparently Bob Weir LEARNED bottleneck slide guitar ON STAGE at one point. Talk about a forgiving audience! |
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