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Topic: Black box? |
Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 13 Jul 2007 8:27 pm |
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I saw a question posted on the forum a couple years ago. The question was "should I get a black box or a Hilton Pedal"? There were a few that suggested that he get a black box, and a few that suggested he get a Hilton pedal. It makes it sound like if you have a Hilton, then you really don't need a BB, and vice versa. The discussion made it sound like you only needed a BB if you had a Goodrich, Emmons, any kind of pot pedal. And does it matter whether you have a solid state, or tube amp? Will somebody clear this up for me please? Thanks
Terry |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 13 Jul 2007 9:05 pm
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Both have buffers in them. In that respect they are the same. The Black Box has a tube in it as its buffer stage. The Hilton is solid state. Both do wonders for the tone.
The two work hand in hand. The Hilton is still a better volume pedal than a pot pedal with or without the Black Box. No more scratchy pots and the sound is more consistent.
The Black Box is good with either a pot pedal or a Hilton because of the variable impedance input and the tube interacting directly with the pickup. It produces a sound that no solid state buffer can.
Those that have tube amps don't notice the effects of the Black Box as much as they do with a solid state amp. The most noticeable difference comes from using the BB with a solid state amp. |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 13 Jul 2007 9:27 pm BB
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Thanks for that good explanation Johnathon.
Just so happens I have a Nashville 112, so it being a solid state amp,>>> I'm thinkin more and more about gettin a BB.
I know Tim Harr had one for sale here a few weeks ago. I emailed him a couple days ago, but hadn't heard back from him. I may just have to breakdown and get a new one.  |
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Michael Pierce
From:
Madison, CT
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Posted 14 Jul 2007 4:07 am
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| I think it's a real testament to the SGBB that so few appear for re-sale, and those that do seem to be from folks who are moving up to the Revelation pre-amp that has the same technology built in. I also have a Nashville 112 and it sounds great with both the SGBB and the Hilton. For the final bit of tweaking (if you haven't already done it), consider the Ken Fox chip upgrade. I had the same reaction when I replaced the chips in my 112 as I did when I added the SGBB (in other words, WOW). It was an inexpensive upgrade and only mildly challenging for even a complete non-technical person like myself. Hilton/SBGG/Ken Fox. (and then add George L cables for another, but smaller, wow!) |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 14 Jul 2007 9:27 am chips
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Michael, I did install the burr brown chips in my Nashville 112, and like you, I was impressed with the change in my tone. So, even with the new chips, does the black box enhance your tone on your 112?
Terry |
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Jonathan Cullifer
From:
Gallatin, TN
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Posted 14 Jul 2007 12:29 pm
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| Yes. I first heard the difference through a set of headphones. There's a noticeable difference. |
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Michael Pierce
From:
Madison, CT
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Posted 14 Jul 2007 2:34 pm
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| Terry, absolutely. These are separate and distinct "Wows." |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 14 Jul 2007 8:21 pm BB
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Thanks guys.
Terry |
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Pat Kelly
From:
Wentworthville, New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:21 am
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How do you connect the BB. Does it take the preamp mode to the back of the amp or just hook it up in line from the guitar?
Pat
total novice in amps/electronics |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:45 am
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Pat, you usually go from your guitar to the BB, then volume pedal, then effects (if any), then the amp.
Of course, there are lots of variations as to how effects can be hooked up, but the BB was designed to have the guitar pickup as it's input. From there, you can use whatever wiring arrangement you prefer.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:59 am
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Yea, what Mike just said.
For steel guitar it really works best if it's the first thing the pickup sees. That way the very first stage where the passive pickup becomes actively electronic is entirely vacuum tube. Well implemented tubes have a way of grabbing huge amounts of nuance, detail, and subtlety. Also, tubes handle spikes and transients in a more silky and smooth and gentle manner.
So you wind up with a very clear, defined, warm, and harmonically rich midrange with highs that are much more smooth and sweet compared to what a transistor would create. Since you capture the pickup's signal this way right out of the gate, then you can send it to any ol' rig you like, but all these sonic tube benefits have been embedded into the guitar signal.
The SGBB is very clean though, and some people don't quite hear these qualities right at first because they're expecting some kind of radical re-voicing or EQ'ing or overdriven sound. But the SGBB is flat response and very low distortion. The discovery of what it's doing becomes most noticeable in how it "feels" to pick the strings, and then in how the whole low string/high string balance comes together. Many people struggle with getting their low, wound strings nice and bright, but then their high strings are too thin and harsh. Then they darken their EQ to mellow out the hight strings and their low strings are dull and dark. The SGBB somehow balances this all out and fixes that problem allowing all the strings to be bright and clear without any harshness. Tubes are magic! That's my theory.
Brad |
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Al Sato
From:
Texas Hill Country
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 8:17 am
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| Brad Sarno wrote: |
...
The SGBB is very clean though, and some people don't quite hear these qualities right at first because they're expecting some kind of radical re-voicing or EQ'ing or overdriven sound. But the SGBB is flat response and very low distortion. The discovery of what it's doing becomes most noticeable in how it "feels" to pick the strings, and then in how the whole low string/high string balance comes together. Many people struggle with getting their low, wound strings nice and bright, but then their high strings are too thin and harsh. Then they darken their EQ to mellow out the hight strings and their low strings are dull and dark. The SGBB somehow balances this all out and fixes that problem allowing all the strings to be bright and clear without any harshness. Tubes are magic! That's my theory.
Brad |
The thing that convinced me was to remove the SGBB from my signal chain. Oops. The difference is suddenly very audible - the tone is thinner, harsher, less "round." Back it went. It's like lifestyle. You can gradually improve your lifestyle and you don't feel like you've done anything but start taking away some of those things you've added and all of a sudden it feels like a lot. Or that's my theory...
Al
_________________
So many stringed instruments, so little time... |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 10:30 am
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Al, that's funny. I've had more reports like that than any other. People will get a Black Box and find it subtle and not be real sure for a few days. But as soon as they remove it, they say it's glaring and obvious that it's missing. Then they put it back in and they're full of adjectives and descriptions as to what it sounds like and how it enhances the tone. Strange stuff.
Brad |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 11:58 am black box
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One more question about the black box. The earlier black boxes didn't have the variable impedence knob on them. Are they just as good as far as tone enhancment as the newer ones? Are is the variable impedence knob a must have?
Terry |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 12:09 pm
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I'll let others comment on how necessary the knob is. It does offer tonal flexibility and pickup matching though. The variable control swings the impedance load between 33k and 1Meg, that's very dark and dull all the way up to very clear and bright, and anything in between. The old BB had it fixed at 450k, right in the middle. 450k seems to still be a popular place that people like to set their knob on the variable versions.
Lots of older models have been modded by me to add the vari-z control.
Brad |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 12:52 pm PM
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Brad I'm sending you a PM, thanks
Terry |
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Michael Pierce
From:
Madison, CT
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:31 pm
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| I really like the variable z knob. As Brad mentioned, it lets you modify the tone/brightness of the signal without jumping up and running over to your amp - very handy. I tend to keep mine around the 2 o'clock setting most of the time, but push it up or down a couple of ticks depending on the circumstances. If you buy an older SGBB I believe it's a relatively modest cost to modify the unit to include the control. Standard on the newer models (along with a tuner out jack and the thinner, one rack space profile). |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:48 pm black box and strobo-flip
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Yea! I was blessed today to find a real good deal on a black box, and a real good deal on a strobo-flip to. $318 for both. 
Micheal, I'm planning on sending my BB to Brad for the upgrade. Not a bad price at all!
Terry
_________________
1997 emmons legrande lll 8&5/ Nashville 112 with Fox chip mod LTD 400 / American Tele / John Jorgerson Takamine/ W/S Rob Ickes model dobro/
"May God Bless America Again" |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:48 pm black box and strobo-flip
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Yea! I was blessed today to find a real good deal on a black box, and a real good deal on a strobo-flip to. $318 for both.
Micheal, I'm planning on sending my BB to Brad for the upgrade. Not a bad price at all!
Terry
_________________
1997 emmons legrande lll 8&5/ Nashville 112 with Fox chip mod LTD 400 / American Tele / John Jorgerson Takamine/ W/S Rob Ickes model dobro/
"May God Bless America Again" |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:49 pm black box and strobo-flip
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Yea! I was blessed today to find a real good deal on a black box, and a real good deal on a strobo-flip to. $318 for both.
Micheal, I'm planning on sending my BB to Brad for the upgrade. Not a bad price at all!
Terry
_________________
1997 emmons legrande lll 8&5/ Nashville 112 with Fox chip mod LTD 400 / American Tele / John Jorgerson Takamine/ W/S Rob Ickes model dobro/
"May God Bless America Again" |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:50 pm black box and strobo-flip
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NOT SURE WHAT'S WRONG, I CLICK ON SUBMIT AT THE END OF MY POST AND IT SAYS SOMETHING LIKE " hAVING TROUBLE SENDING MAIL" DEBUG MODE
tHAT'S THE REASON FOR THE MULTIPLE POST.
Terry
Last edited by Terry Sneed on 16 Jul 2007 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 16 Jul 2007 6:51 pm black box and strobo-flip
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James Marlowe
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2007 4:27 am
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Hey Terry,
Do believe you'll be very happy with the BB. And the mod. price and service is great. Brad is good people! He'll have it back to you in a flash!
jas. |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 17 Jul 2007 9:23 am
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Terry,
Sounds like you're triple blessed!
I love my SGBB too. The Z knob works great! |
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Marlin Smoot
From:
Kansas
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Posted 17 Jul 2007 12:12 pm
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| I forget, can you go direct out of the BB and into a mixing board for recording? |
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