which lap steels sound best for certain styles?

Jonathan Brown-Tea · From: New York, USA

Hi guys,

Thrilled to have found your forum. I'm a lifelong musician but I'm new to steel guitar. I'm starting off with lap steel and we'll see what happens from there. Smile

I was just curious to know which lap steels sound best on certain styles. For example, which guitars sound best for (or are generally associated with) western swing, blues, hawaiian, and rock?

Also, since I probably won't be able to afford something like a nice vintage Fender, which brands should I look at for getting the most bang for the buck?

I humbly thank you all in advance for your input!

Jonathan

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

As most around here will tell you, it ain't the guitar, it's the player that makes it sound good or bad, however all brands are gonna have thier own sound and then work the tone knob (on the amp, with the steels tone open all the way, per Jerry Byrd) to find the tone you prefer.

Fender's have long been associated with C/W and the bright/est tone, and unfortunately, everybody then followed that trend, so most post war steels tend to be very bright. But in the right hands, even that can work well, especcially if you have to cut thru a stage full of other musicians.

Hawaiian music is usually a mellower tone (however, Pua and Barney made bright work for them), and most pre war steels have that built into them.

Rock, who cares? It'll probably be at least a bit distorted, and you can get away with just about anything.

www.westcoaststeelguitar.com are probably the finest steels for a somewha lower buck, and Dynalap's www.dynalap.com are real nice sounding, but prices have gone up I see, but the kits are probably still a good deal.

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

For my taste, early 26" scale Fender Stringmaster for western swing, 22&1/2" scale Fender Dual Pro. or Custom for Hawaiian.

As for rock:
Learning to play the steel guitar involves learning "what not to play". Those who play rock have yet to learn this.

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Like my friend Ron stated above......
It's the player. The greats of olde, the Noel Boggs and Leon McAuliff, they most likely bought what was available and then cranked in whatever direction they chose to get the sound they wanted.
Aside from the chase to acquire a Bigsby at one point in the late 1950's......, the Fenders were indeed a workhorse g'tar and they performed quite well.
Remember, it's the marriage of g'tar and AMP that makes the overall sound. Great g'tar and crummy amp makes NOISE. The reverse is also true. Take whatever guitar is your fancy; take some time to find an amp that will blend well with it, adjust all of the strings, find out where your pickin' hand should be to get the best tone, learn to pick properly and then go for it.
You don't have to have a particular guitar to play a particular form of music. That's a mistake many wanna-be musicians commonly make. Good Luck!

Gary Lynch · From: Creston, California, USA

You stated you will start on a lap steel. A Magnatone can be had for $200 - $300 and they have a nice vintage sound. Supros do as well. A few more bucks gets you a Rickenbacker. As the others have stated, a lot depends on what your tastes are and what direction you will take it. There are also acoustic lap guitars such as the Weissenborn styles that have regained popularity.

For $300 or less I would buy a vintage lap steel and see how you adapt. It's easy to become addicted to steel guitar playing.

You might inform your significant other that you may not be available for the next few years once you slide that bar down the fretboard.

Jonathan Brown-Tea · From: New York, USA

Thanks everyone for the info! I perhaps should have given some more background on myself or phrased my question a little differently.

I understand that even the worst guitar in the right hands can be made to sound beautiful. I have been playing guitar for 25 years in styles from country to jazz to classical to rock, piano even longer, and a slew of other instruments that I've picked up along the way. I studied jazz at University of North Texas (formerly North Texas State). I love to use instruments in environments for which they were not designed.

So my revised question really is this: Is there a resource that sort of deliniates which brands (and more specifically, pickup types) are associated with certain styles? Short of owning and playing every vintage steel out there, I'd like to be able to make an educated guess on what I'm hearing when I'm listening to old steel recordings. Not necessarily to try to recreate that style, but just to know that if I'm writing and recording and looking for a specific tone, I know where to go. I am not deluding myself into thinking that if I get the same guitar as Jerry Byrd that I will suddenly sound like him. To that end, if anyone is aware of a resource that lists which players are generally associated with a particular guitar I would be ever so appreciative to be made aware of it.

For example, on a standard guitar, I could do some chicken pickin' on a Les Paul with PAF humbuckers and sure, it will sound country-ish simply by the style of play, but it won't have the twang of a single coil pickup and the longer scale of a Telecaster.

Through my research so far (and your responses, thank you again!) I can discern that Fender models are bright and synonomous with country styles. Rickenbacker (with horseshoe p'ups) are well suited to the blues, and that there's something special about those string-through pickups on the old Valco/Supro/National lap steels but I'm not sure what it is. Please feel free to elaborate on any of this or tell me I've got it wrong. I am just starting to learn!

Thanks Gary and all! I think I will make my first stop on the steel train a vintage Supro type.

Gary Lynch · From: Creston, California, USA

http://www.youtube.com/

Put in Lap Steel Guitar and there are hundreds of clips to listen to, to get a grip.

The SGF has the best people for advice.

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

Rick. I like that last line in your post. unfortunately, I resembled that remark.
once I began playing lap steel and sq. neck resonator, however,I began to think, hear, and play things much differently.
on topic: how tunings are used in the genres of slide? choose a guitar that that in mind.

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Gary Stevenson · From: Northern New York,USA

I agree with Roman that the string-thru laps have a edgy sound. I have one of my homemade's with strat-style p/up and one with a "lindy" overwound P-90.Both are string thru and I backup both C/Western and Blues/Rock musicians. With a little Champion 30 Fender amp I can scream and wail with the rockers or be nice and subtle with the C&W folks. I have found from my building laps that the type of wood and the p/ups really define the sound you will get.

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

I have three electric lap steels:

1937 National New Yorker

1941 National New Yorker

1947 National New Yorker

Smile

They may look similar but they have radically different sounds due to different pickup and I think maybe different tonewoods too.

The 1937 model is an incredibly deep sounding guitar with three pickups - blade pickup at the bridge and two concealed pickups under the fretboard. Sounds like a mixture between acoustic and electric. Not the best all-round steel but I love it!

The 1941 model has the Supro-style string-through pickup mentioned above. It is indeed edgy - can sound very crips and clear with clean sound but also great with overdrive (not the kind of music I play, but I couldn't resist trying it cranked up to 11 through my Marshall amp Smile

).

The 1947 model has a more conventional single coil pickup and has a very nice clean tone.

You can hear two of these in a little youtube clip I made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbYVtmIJBVE

Smile

Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

I could tell you had music experience, Jonathan, and it sounds like you have pedal steel in your sites, and you may want to focus on that. It's a whole nuther bag from steel, but you'll be happy either way, it's just more expensive and heavy.

Have fun!

James Mayer · Posted 15 Jul 2007 6:04 pm

While I have far less steel experience than just about everyone here, I can confidently recommend a steel made by Chris Fouke of Industrial Guitars.

I've got one of these:

http://industrialguitars.com/187_0157.jpg

It's superb in every way. It is on the brighter side(which I prefer) but the tone knob seems to get more usable variety than other steels I have tried. I roll it down and it mellows up nicely without getting too muddy. Also, mine has a coil-tap switch added($25 extra) that gives me humbucker or single-coil sounds. I paid $375 for mine. I've just ordered another one, a custom 8-string.

I, like you, look to place instruments in situations that they weren't designed for. I mainly play flamenco guitar and other plucked ethnic instruments. I wanted an instrument that could "sing" and decided on steel guitar over bowed instruments.

I guess I play "rock" as well, but I don't "rock out". You won't hear me slamming distorted power chords. I think the lap steel with a volume pedal is a fantastic instrument for creating ambient sounds. My steel has benders added for creating pedal steel sounds when I feel like it.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Interesting! Can you post pix of your six with the 'benders', and who makes them?

Sounds like you have all the bases covered!

James Mayer · Posted 15 Jul 2007 6:48 pm

Here's a photo.

The mods are rather home-made, but function well. The tuning is open E. The B bender has a 8" arm that isn't pictured here. It screws in, points toward the floor and is angled back under the instrument so I can engage it by rotating my heel outward. The bend can be fine tuned by adjusting a screw.

The G# bender isn't being used in this photo. The arm can be screwed in and bends up toward the ceiling. It's engaged by moving my elbow out to my right.

The volume knob, jack, and coil switch had to be moved to make room for the elbow bender. I had the volume knob placed where I could control it with my pinky while playing......which I find very difficult to do effectively. I think the knob doesn't rotate fast enough...or I suck.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Cute that sucker up, and you might have a new business venture.

Thanx for posting!

James Mayer · Posted 15 Jul 2007 7:23 pm

I didn't build it. Keith Cary in Winters CA machined this prototype.

Jonathan Brown-Tea · From: New York, USA

Wow! You guys are all so awesome for taking the time to give me this info. I've certainly been made to feel welcome here!

James, thanks for the info on the Fouke. I had run across their website and was really intrigued by them and they seem pretty affordable. I found a SGF member selling one used, so that will be my first steel. It has the coil cut switch as well.

Your bender unit looks reminiscent of the hipshot b-bender for standard guitar, but Keith did a great job of squeezing into 2 inches what takes 5 inches on the hipshot. The "G-bender" on the hipshot is a neat little palm bar that you just push down on and can be positioned right under the palm or rotated to fit under your forearm.

Great video Fred! I learned a lot!

And Ron, you are right. Although I am not ready to admit it to myself, pedal steel sits on the horizon for me. I want to get my slant bar technique solid first, so I can really appreciate all those pedals and knee levers.

Again, thank you all!

James Mayer · Posted 16 Jul 2007 7:53 am

The problem with the hipshot is that the benders get in the way of your picking hand. I wanted something that left my right hand free to roam.

Slants seem damn near impossible to me, at this point. Easy in theory, very difficult in practice. I need some tips on how one note so it doesn't move as I slant to the second note.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Just keep at it, James. If I can nail the most difficult fore and rev. slants, ANYBODY can!

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

dittos

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

mega da kine

James Mayer · Posted 16 Jul 2007 11:13 am

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

1st let me appologize for the misques above. I'm blaming bOb, or this computer, or...

James, I've never tried the tuner method, but that sounds interesting.
I just go with my ears, (HA!), and hope to get it right, which to my surprise I usually do.

Let me take a stab at understanding your 'pivot' question.
Jerry Byrd taught to move the bar like you would steer a car while making a turn. The rear holds position (pivot point), and the front takes you were you want to go.
This applies to both, forward and reverse slants.

I'm sure others can contribute thier wealth of knowlege to further the discription.

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