Pearse/Weissenborn - the madness continues..

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

I've just learned that John Pearse, who has his weissenborns built by GoldTone, has sent a 'cease and desist' order to Lazy River (and probably all/most other weissenborn builders) through his lawyers. They have been ordered to remove the name "weissenborn" from their websites and all sales material.

Pearse owns the copyright to the "Weissenborn" name and will not allow any other builders to use that term for their instruments. It's the "Gibson/Dobro" and "Rickenbacker/Aiello & Lollar" stories all over again.

This is total madness, and I have sent this email to John Pearse,- I encourage everyone who feels the same to also get in touch with Pearse:

"Dear John Pearse

I am a weissenborn and lap steel player who's always held your products and company in high regards. Which made it all the more shocking to learn about your decision to stop other independent builders from using the term "weissenborn" about their instruments. While I am sure you have every legal right to do so I can not see what moral/ethical right you have to hijack a name like this,- a term that has been used for these wonderful instruments for ages and has become the common way to name these "hollowneck Hawaiian guitars" (is that how you'd prefer other builders to name their instruments?).

I find your actions in this case to be appalling and a terrible blow to the credibility of your name and company. I will not spend money on any of your products as long as you uphold this practice.

With regards,
Steinar Gregertsen
Norway"

Enough is enough.....

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 04 October 2006 at 04:13 PM.]

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

If that's the case, John Pearse has damaged himself and his image. He is dead to me.

Ron Bednar · From: Rancho Cordova, California, USA

I also sent John Pearse an email after Rance called me yesterday. I pretty much said the same thing Steinar said. What really vexes me is, yes, he has a legal right, but no blood ties to the name Weissenborn. The name Weissenborn is a generic term for the type of guitar...I hate greed...

[This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 04 October 2006 at 06:57 PM.]

[This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 04 October 2006 at 06:59 PM.]

Terry VunCannon · From: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA

I always refer to my LR as a "Weissenborn style" guitar...can a maker even use this term in print???

Todd Clinesmith · From: Lone Rock Free State Oregon

I have mixed feelings on this one .

Weissenborn was not even the inventor of the Hollow neck Hawaiian guitar in the first place. I always thought it was odd he got all the credit . There are not alot of facts about who actually invented this style guitar, but from what I have read in the book on Knutsen instruments ( who was building this style guitar long before Weissenborn).
Chris Knutsens ideas on these style guitars came from seeing Hawaiian musicians guitars built this way. The book also states that Weissenborn was more than likely contracted by Delano ( hawaiian music publicist)to build these for him on a large scale. I think it said Weissenborn was a violin repairman. He probably saw the opportunity to get in on the Hawiian craze, and jumped on it to make $$.... bottom line... I don't think Herman W. was a Hawaiian enthusiast out trying to spread the Hawaiian instrument to the world out of the bottom of his heart because he invented and loved the Hawaiian guitar. It is about making $$ and capitalizing while the market is hot. Which is probably what J.P is doing. All the big instrument company's we love would probably be doing the same thing if they had the opportunity.

I have always refered to my "Weissenborn style" guitars as "Hawaiian Guitars". I think the credit is due to alot more than Herman Weissenborn anyways.

Yes, Gibson pissed alot of folks off ( me included) when they took Dobro's name and ran it into the ground and at the same time sicked there lawyers on anyone who called there resophonic instrument a Dobro. A name I have always admired and still do. I belive it is coming back and biting Gibson in the rear... too bad the Dobro name has to go with it.
People now commonly refer to their " Dobro" as resonator guitars.

I belive John Pearse has owned the Weissenborn name for quite a while, long before there was a big craze about these instruments. Before Ben Harper was big, and most of the other builders of this style guitar began building them. For all we know he has had a big love for this instrument long before most of us new what one was. I know he did build some under the Breezy Ridge label years ago. He has probably leased the name to Gold Tone and may leagaly have to go this route . I have never supported the Chinese instrument market anyways ( don't get me started on this one). And I am not that into big instrument companies when there are plenty of hand crafted instruments to pick from. I am not backing J.P up, I just think before we "get a rope" we might want to look at it differently. I don't think John Pearse is at blame for wanting to protect his investment of the name.

Maybe as Dobro has done... the Weissenborn name will be refered to an inferior instrument. Maybe not?

Heck, lets call it a Hawaiian Guitar and give some credit where it is due anyways.

Todd

Edited for spelling

[This message was edited by Todd Clinesmith on 05 October 2006 at 04:10 PM.]

Ã˜ystein RÃ¸ysi · From: Trondheim, Norway

I must say I agree wholeheartedly with Steinar and Ron on this one!

It's not like JP has bought a company or anything specific like that. And although I know that it is possible to by the rights to a name, it's not like he got them yesterday and is enforcing his rights. He bought the name long ago, and now that he sees that the weissenborns are becoming popular, he is doing all he can to cash in on it.

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Cheers,
Øystein

Gold Tone Solid Spruce Weissenborn D / Low G / C+9
National Dynamic A6th / C6th / Leavitt
Fender SRV Strat
Ayers Acoustic
Koch Twintone II

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

Mark Vinbury · From: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA

What is really going on here?
Is he insisting that no one use the name or is he just asking them to aknowledge that it is his?
Fender appears to be doing the smart thing. They seem to allow builders to use Strat,Tele etc. as long as they aknowledge that the name is owned by Fender.
It's free advertising as I see it and has made these Fender names household words.

I mean he can't stop folks from building Weissenborn style instruments and people are going to call them Weissenborns.Why not just ask that the "small print" aknowledge the ownership of the name.

Ã˜ystein RÃ¸ysi · From: Trondheim, Norway

Very good point Mark! That's the smart way to do this, at least as I see it.

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Cheers,
Øystein

Gold Tone Solid Spruce Weissenborn D / Low G / C+9
National Dynamic A6th / C6th / Leavitt
Fender SRV Strat
Ayers Acoustic
Koch Twintone II

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

Uhh, I dunno guys, I think you're being a little rough here. By law Pearce has to actively protect his copyright or other companies can argue that he didn't defend it and he can effectively lose it. I don't know the legalese on this but I do know that these kind of letters are common and I don't think it rises to the level of Gibson insisting they own the rights to the cutaway or Ric insisting that noboby else can produce a pickup design they don't even make because it looks similar to one their company used to make.
As far as greed, he probably has spent a pretty good amount of money advertising his instruments, printing packaging materials and like Todd mentions, has a business arrangement with Gold Tone. He has a livelyhood to protect and I really can't expect him to 'give away' a brand name he owns. The way I see it he's being legally responsible and protecting his assets. He's not telling anyone they can't build a guitar that looks like a Weissenborn, he's saying, "Please call it something else, I own this name". What if people were selling strings with the name 'Pearse' on them? Wouldn't you expect him to object?
I guess we can all call them 'Knutsens' from now on.

Now excuse me, I need to go look for 'Weissenborn' on my website....and see about copywriting 'Hollowneck Hawaiian Guitar' (Just kidding!

)

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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

Terry VunCannon · From: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA

There is always "Acoustic Hollowneck Manuel Pitch Approximater".

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

Mark, I'll mention it to Rance and have him look into it. As far as I understand he's not allowed to call them "Weissenborn" - period.

Mike - I see your point, and I realize he has every legal right to do what he does. However, I don't think your example with the "Pearse strings" hold water - "Pearse" is his own creation, and it has never become a generic term for guitar strings in general.

Someone mentioned on another forum that Pearse has owned the copyright to the "Weissenborn" name since '97, I didn't realize that. But to me it still doesn't make sense that someone - could have been me if I'd had the money - can simply copyright a name that has developed to become a common way to describe a certain instrument, just as with the dobro, and claim to have exclusive rights to use that name.
Legally, sure, I understand how it works, but - and I know this sounds terribly naive - "it's just not fair".....

I mean, we have Gibson guitars, Fender guitars, why not have Lazy River weissenborns, Gold Tone weissenborns, etc? How anyone can "own" that name - besides the Weissenborn family - is beyond me. I can't see how it would hurt his business either, unless he's afraid of the competition (which he should be, considering the quality of his instruments...).

"There is only ONE Weissenborn; The Pearse/Gold Tone"? Bull****

Terry - brilliant!

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 05 October 2006 at 08:10 AM.]

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 05 October 2006 at 08:11 AM.]

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 05 October 2006 at 08:12 AM.]

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

I mean, we have Gibson guitars, Fender guitars, why not have Lazy River weissenborns, Gold Tone weissenborns, etc?

Because 'Weissenborn' was and is a tradename, not a type of instrument. Yes, like Kleenex it's sort of become a generic term but you can't start making tissues and stick 'Kleenex' on the box. It's still protected even if everybody on Earth calls anything they wipe their nose on a Kleenex.
As far as the Fender/Gibson analogy, try making the 'Steinar Stratocaster' and see what happens.

The people that currently own that name didn't make the first Strats and Leo is dead may years, but they still legally own the name and the right and financial obligation to protect it.
I guess what I object to is calling John, a guy that's been there and done that and helped many a musician along the way mean and greedy (and even dead!) because he's protecting a name that he had the foresight and initiative to invest in and supports his family with.

Whether his Weissenborn instruments are any good (and I've read the reviews too) is basically irrelevant legally, but I understand the sentiment there. On a personal level I wish he cared more about the quality associated with the name.

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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

[This message was edited by Mike D on 05 October 2006 at 08:39 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

Terry VunCannon · From: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA

Well said Steinar..."Anyone who REALLY CARES about those instruments & that name", that statement says it all. I still think "Weissenborn style" instrument when I think of these beautiful guitars & will have trouble thinking of them in any other way.

Russ Young · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

As is so often the case, we find ourselves arguing over what is "legal" (what John Pearse is doing as owner of the Weissenborn trademark) and what is "right" (at least in our opinion. You can count me among those who think it's a shame that he owns the rights to a brand name that lay dormant for decades, arguably becoming a generic term. Even more shameful is to see that name on the decidedly mediocre GoldTone hollow-neck Hawaiian guitars.)

The situation reminds me of the signs that you see above the sinks in restaurant bathrooms -- the ones that begin "State law and common decency ..." What's legal and what's decent are not always the same thing.

Ron Bednar · From: Rancho Cordova, California, USA

Listen, I'd give the guy a break but the way it was handled was very piggish. Stop using the name in any mammer or we are taking you to court was what their letter said. I advised Rance to write a polite email acknowledging their email and thanking them for pointing out the legal issues and saying he would comply with their demands immediately, which he did. Their reply to his email acknowledgement was they are taking him to court. That's crap anyway you cut it. Wonder if anyone has copyrighten "Lap Steel"? Hmmm...I'd be King of The Hill with that one...
There are other things I could say but I'll leave it at that.

[This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 05 October 2006 at 11:03 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

John Pearse makes some fine products and has a long history of involvement with the Hawaiian steel guitar. My favorite bar is a Pearse Thermo-Cryonic. I wasn't aware of his involvement with Goldtone but I well remember his disastrous Italian made Weissenborns of about 10 yrs ago. He became indignant when I suggested to him during a phone call that making wooden nuts - even using lignum vitae - was a bad idea. The guitars were famous for spitting bridge pins like tracer bullets and the line died the death it richly deserved. In fairness, Pete Grant owned a Pearse Weiss that sounded pretty good (but Pete could make a plywood ax sound great).

Pearse has actually owned the Weissenborn name since that period - about ten years. Bear Creek and a few others others have been careful to use terminology like "styled after the guitars by Herman Weissenborn in the 1920s" though Pearse hasn't done much about the Weiss trademark .... apparently, until now.

Personally, I didn't like it when Gibson had the suits enforce the Dobro trademark and I don't like it here with Weissenborn. I certainly don't think it's at all worth the ill will it breeds in a relatively small, and generally supportive community of artists, luthiers and potential buyers to co-opt a generic name. Nevertheless, if Pearse owns it he has a right to enforce his trademark, however misguided and insensitive it may be to do this. The market can respond with its wallet though and it's questionable how much cachet the Weissenborn name has in influencing potential buyers. Anyone who does a modicum of research learns about Knutsen and all the various facets of the story as well as who's building these guitars. Like Pearse, nobody's going to make a windfall in this very tiny market niche and it's a shame he can't play well with others. In any case, we'll have to see how this all plays out but I wouldn't buy any stock in Breezy Ridge anytime soon.

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 05 October 2006 at 01:06 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

I see Rance has changed the description on his website to "Hollownecks - weissenborn style"...
I wonder if that is good enough for Pearse or if he will object to the use of "weissenborn style" as well. I see he still refers to the Teardrop model as "Teardrop Weiss", could just be that he hasn't had the time to change it yet (as far as I know Fender doesn't allow the use of "Strat" and "Tele", or am I wrong about this?).

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

Mark Eaton · Posted 5 Oct 2006 1:53 pm

Some interesting posts here.

Though in fairness, I would like to hear John Pearses' side of the story.

All that aside, I'll put in a plug for one of the posters, because in the interest of decorum he won't do it himself.

Play one of Todd Clinesmith's Hawaiians and you will be checking the credit card balances to place an order! They, like his resos, are outstanding guitars!

I have played a few actual historic Weissenborns, and I would take a Clinesmith Hawaiian any day of the week.

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Mark

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I thought Weissenborn was a brand name.

John Bushouse · Posted 5 Oct 2006 2:25 pm

Time to break out the fancy flower inlays:

[This message was edited by John Bushouse on 05 October 2006 at 03:28 PM.]

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

That's the current rumor Bobby Lee.

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Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

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