R.I.P. C6th

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

MY Winnie Winston steel guitar book copyrighted 1975 asked if the C6th neck is on its way out, it also said that some players think not.

In the early 90's when Garth took country music by storm I think the pendulm was starting to swing.

Country music was and is starting to feel more like classic rock and any steel you would hear is mostly E9th.

So do you think there is a place for the C6th in the future?

Before I got my new PSG some guys asked me "Why are you getting a D10? You can play everything that you need on E9th"

I did get the D10 and any PSG I would own would be a D10.

I think the C6th neck is cool and very mysterious, but has it ran it's course in time?

sho-bud sd10
carter d10
playstation 2
crate stuff

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

No musical form ever disappears. Each is supplemented by whatever comes after. People will be playing C6 as long as there are steel guitars and people to play them. C6 is still the main tuning for Hawaiian and Western Swing.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I was lucky enough to start learning E9th & C6th at the same time back in 71' when I got started. Currently I'm playing D-10's but can pretty much do the same thing on a S-12U. S-10D is fine also, just doesn't have the low end of the D-10 or S-12U. I don't believe the C6th is on it's way out at all. There's no limit to C6th, it can go in any direction and continue on as far as a player can take it. I'm a big fan of the old C6th stuff that Emmons, Chalker, Rugg, Jernigan, Charleston and so many, many others did years ago. Even today, I like to listen to players like Tommy White, Mike Johnson, Paul Franklin & John Hughey playing C6th.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

I play a 35 year old MSA D-10 classic,About 80 percent is on the 6th neck.I have always loved the 6th sound and the big FAT chords.Sometimes on instrumentals such as the rag,remington ride,Sleep Walk I'll play a ride on both the 9th and 6th,keeps it from getting boring.For me the 6th neck is a lot more forgiving than the 9th.I don't know why the 6th neck scares some people,it should'nt.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC !

Roger Edgington · From: San Antonio, Texas USA

A.J

I just came from 2 week-ends of Western Swing Festivals and believe me there was plenty of great C6th being played. I play C6th probably 70% of the time now, sometimes non-pedal C6th. But I enjoy both. The crowds in Texas are very supportive of the Western Swing Fiddle & Steel guitar and of course the Texas dance Music.
We played at Pearls in Ft Worth Last night and it was a huge crowd. These fans are very much into watching every thing the bands do. They are some of the greatest crowds.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I now play B6 almost exclusively; it's Sneaky Pete's version, somewhat similar to C6 but with mainly E9-type changes. I find it far better suited for classic rock than E9.

When I was getting started, I used a D10 and found myself (not being much of a traditional country player) gravitating more to the C6 neck, as I'd played C6 lapsteel for years. Even with the standard "jazzy" c^ changes, it seemed to just fall into place for classic rock, while E9 tended to either sound too country, or in recommended A-pedal down, 3 frets up "rock" positions too "minor".

Lots of guys can play the heck out of E9 on rock stuff - but IMO C6 rock ffeels more natural. Modify the changes a bit from the standard C6 copedent (to move away from the "swingy" sound) and it's good stuff.

I also recall hearing (I could be wrong) that Paul Franklin plays mostly C6 on rock stuff. If true, that would be a pretty good indicator of what works.

So if you play nothing but straight country, E9 is probably all you need. A few "rock" type songs here or there and E9 is also fine. But if you play a lot of rock, country rock, etc, you might want to at least consider getting (or keeping) a C6 copedent.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Joe Butcher · From: Dallas,Texas, USA

Im mostly a rock/jazz/alt country guy. I just got my first U12 and I must say its very exciting to play all these new chord voicings and scales.

I dont think any particular tuning will ever go out of style, but you never know. the sacred steeler guys are throwing a whole new tuning into the game, maybe someone will come up with a Universal that combines E9, B6 and sacred Steel tuning?

Reece Anderson once said to me "What tuning is a piano in?"

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

I have fairly broad musical tastes, so C6th will always be part of any music I play - in fact most gigs I do I find myself playing a bit more C6th than I used to.
Apart from that it is really cool Laughing

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I don't play it but I think C6th will never go away because it's been a "standard" for so long. Personally I played a U-12 for a long time before going back to an extended E9 a few years ago. To me I don't think you need a bunch of chords when playing jazz if you think and play with a horn player's mindset. They can only do one note at a time and IMO it's much cleaner to play fills that way. I like the extra low strings for playing backup but you can do any horn riff you want on a standard E9 tuning. Also you can do two or three note grips here and there and the music will sound much cleaner. As great as he was, I never liked Curley Chalker's tone, it was just too muddy for me. I like pop and jazz but I like a brighter, cleaner tone for it. As for C6th listening, I like the tone Herby Wallace gets, especially in his live shows!.....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Yeh you guys have a point, I don't see jazz going away any time soon. So C6th will be there.

However the modern country music has a more strong hold with the E9th than C6th, and that is why I question it's future. In all honesty I am sure it will be here, I can't say how popular of a tuning it will be, but my crystal ball has been broke for 15 yrs now, so I am limited to posting!

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

I am going to buy a crystal ball from ebay...

Brett Day · From: Pickens, SC

Before I bought my GFI, I played the C6th neck, thinkin' it was the E9th neck while I was roadtesting the guitar.

Brett

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

I finally got a D-10 a couple of years ago, after years of E9th only. The C6th tuning allowed me to find just what Jimmy Day was doing on a tune by Patsy Cline that I really like... "Lovin' in Vain".
Also, thanks to b0b for his comment a while ago that pedals 5 and 6 were the "home pedals" for C6th. That's when the lights finally came on... Smile

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Oddly enough about half my gigs some months are on C6 only and when I get country gigs around NYC at least 35% of the tunes work better on the C neck.
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Bob

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Check out Tommy White on YouTube playing some C6th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZoPTJNmiCw

And Emmons on the Swing series of CD's. Jernigan on his Jazz by Jernigan CD, countless others.

My opinion only, but it's inspiring stuff you have to try your hand at - even if it takes years.

Les Green · From: Jefferson City, MO, R.I.P.

Without C6th there can be no western swing (unless you're Emmons)! Without western swing there might not be me pickin'.
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Les Green
73 MSA D10 8&4, 74 MSA S10 3&5, Legrande II 8&9, Fender Squier 6 string, Genesis III, Peavey 1000

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

The C6th gives you a different 'voice'for different melodies and fill-ins. I would turn around the comment to say that you can play any melody on the C 6th that you can on the E 9th, however some of the fill-in patterns may need to be changed to still be currently 'commercial'.

Learn to play every thing you do now - at least the melody, if the tune has one, on the C6th.

When you break the B string on the E9th at the beginning of a set, you can jump immediately to the C6th and keep playing, then replace the broken string during the next intermission. I done this a few times. It's a good challenge.

Thanx,
Jim

Mark Eaton · Posted 19 Jun 2007 9:16 am

I've quoted from this magazine article before, "The Conscience of Steel," written about Lloyd Green by Robbie Fulks in The Journal of Country Music Volume 24.3, which came out in 2005.

Lloyd talks about why he had his D-10 converted by Shot Jackson to the first LDG in the 1970's.

"I played sessions in suits up until the late sixties, and the C6 neck would unravel the sleeves of my coat."

"I went to my book and counted 595 sessions on the E9 neck in the preceding twelve months. In other words, out of my last six hundred sessions, I could only account for five on the C6."

Thus came the LDG, and it turns out that it made the guitar lighter by 18 lbs.

As written by Fulks:

"Reduced on the face of it, to half of the musical hardware of most of his peers, Green proceeded to play all shades of country, including western swing (ironically) on his first post-neck removal session, for Danny Davis-with a single tuning. "Most [swing] players think you're impotent on E9," Green says. "You can play anything you want on E9. The problem lies in avoiding thinking. You don't have to think as much with more pedals, more necks, more redundancy."

Fulks continues, in writing about Green: "Constraints spur creativity. He uses pre-pedal-era slants to achieve subtle effects at a tightrope-walker risk level most players would just as soon not assume."

I thought these were some interesting comments about, and from, one of the masters of the pedal steel guitar.
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Mark

Gary Lee Gimble · From: Fredericksburg, VA.

oh what the heck

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Zj3x82bcXU

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Mark you have some good points thanks.

Gary is that you playing? Who ever it is they have a very good right hand technique. thanks for sharing.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

"Without C6th there can be no Western Swing?" I don't think I'd tell that to Herb Remington who's one of the masters of that style and plays an A6th exclusively. He did his time in the trenches with Bob Wills & the Texas Playboys, now that's Western Swing............JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

Brett:
You failed the road test...go to your room.

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

Better not even get close to West Texas, with those thoughts.

Them thars' fightin' words.

What key is a piano tuned to?

Ron

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Was playing along to "Steel & Strings" last night. Found another one that was really "followable" on the C6th neck.

Next lesson is to find P5 and P6 without "lookin".

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