Is it possible to just wear a steel out?

Quesney Gibbs · From: Anniston, AL

I have a MSA Classic double ten that has had hard use for 33 years and has been all over the world and I think it has arrived at the point where it is worn out. Lots of slack in the pulling train and string buzz like crazy. It came with a lifetime guarentee but............. Crying or Very sad

Anyway, I'll have to keep using it because I can't afford another one.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Take the changer apart and clean it and spend $5 for a new piece of stainless steel and make a new shaft, lap the cam lobes and put a drop of oil on the rollers so it does not buzz anymore and use it for another 33.

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

exactly what Bill said.
You can adjust out the slop in the pulls later as you re assemble.
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Bo Borland
Rittenberry SD10 , Derby D-10, Quilter TT12, Peavey Session 400 w/ JBL, NV112, Fender Blues Jr. , 1974 Dobro 60N squareneck, Rickenbacher NS lapsteel, 1973 Telecaster Thinline, 1979 blonde/black Frankenstrat
Currently picking with
Mason Dixon Band masondixonband.net

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

I play a 35 year old MSA D-10 classic,I think I will wear out before she does.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC !

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Some areas get wear that's inconsequential, like the changer shaft. Sure, they wear a little, but they're pre-loaded by string tension, so the "slop" will never be noticed when the guitar is strung up. The tops of the changer fingers get grooved (especially with those old fiberglass cases), and these can be carefully polished out. The brass pins will wear out the bellcranks some, but it's a simple matter to swap these around (using one from another place, with a different hole used). Slop can be taken out of the pulling train just by adjustment, too, as long as you're careful not to make things too tight (which will cause both tuning and wear problems).

It would be hard to imagine a guitar with more playing time on it than my own '73 MSA Classic. Even though it is certainly "well-worn", it remains the quietest and smoothest guitar I've ever played.

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

I have some MSA's I hope to still be playing in 35 years. Wonder if I'll still be able to play at 90???????
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

If you have a D10 MSA you might want to just take the C6 changer and swap it for the E9. On every MSA D10 I have ever owed or worked on the C6 changer had virtually no use on it! Wonder why...right!

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Tommy Young · From: Ethelsville Alabama

YOU asked A QUESTION AND NO ONE HAS ANSWERED IT YET SO i CAN ATTEST TO THIS YES YOU CAN WEAR ONE OUT i've seen some worn so bad that you couldn't keep them in tune from one verse to the next if that answers your question but we have so many backyard mechanics on here they seem to know it all, don't need to go any further for me you have a good day my friend

Quesney Gibbs · From: Anniston, AL

Bill....In my case that is not an option to change out the two changers because my C6th neck gets lots of use also. Perhaps not as much as it used to when I was playing in Texas and doing lots of western swing. But I still use it a lot.

Ques

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

My '76 Classic just keeps getting better with every little change I make. The pedals are smooth again, and quieter. Lapping the knuckles and new strings, I'll be pretty much 'done' for a while.
A couple of cranks have stripped, but I got longer machine screws and nuts, extending their life. New set screws in the brass pins.
No reason a good 'machine' can't live on.

I adopted David's split the difference method, and cabinet drop is less a worry than my own playing accuracy. The 'old' guitar is still better than me. Cool

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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Scott Howard · From: Georgetown, TN, USA

I have to agree with Donny. If you are not very mechanical find someone who can help. I have 4 MSA 12 string guitars built between 72 and 74.
Get a camera or video camera if needed and take pictures as it comes apart. Make a chart of what rods are in what hole on the changer and the hole in the bellcrank.This is extremely important so you can get it back close to the original settings.
You will notice wear on one side of the brass pins. I have seen them rotated so you have a new wear surface or replaced. I ordered a box off 100 from Advance Auto parts that work real well. Not exact but close. I also replace all the brass pin set screws just because I hate having one strip on the inside. Cheap insurance!!Also look at the holes in the bellcranks , if it shows wear change it out with one that has wear in a different hole. This is why it is important to have a chart of the holes each pull is in.
I have seen string fingers swapped around to put those with less wear back on the most used strings. Remember even with you having played C 6th ,the actual time is still probably considerably less than the time the E 9th neck has seen. Clean and oil everything while it is apart.
You may not get it to a New status but you should be able to get it to a good playing guitar with some work and just thinking about putting it together. Plan out each pull train in adavance using your best parts on the most used pedals and knee levers.
MSA's are very durable and with this you might get 20 more years out of it.

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

I would think that yes a PSG can be worn out.

You would then just have to rebuild it, or have someone do it for you.

I would be concerned with the wood screws on the body, after so long you should check to see if they are snug, well after awhile they will strip out (20plus yrs) that to me would be a more headache than repairing the mechanical side.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

"---------but we have so many backyard mechanics on here they seem to know it all, don't need to go any further for me------"

Yeh, I can think of a few "shade trees" like Bobby Bowman, Mike Cass, Dave Marr, Tommy Cass, Kyle Bennett, Johnny Cox, Junior Knight, Del Mullen, Jim Palenscar, Bobbe Seymour, and a host of others.

And to think that they would actually tell us how they do things, and can you imagine, they do it publicly, no strings attached. WOW!!
Shocked

phred

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

As Scott said, clean and lube everything. I don't use oil anymore, and haven't for a very long time...I use TriFlow. It's a teflon based lube. After the fluid carrier dries out, the teflon is left behind, which is the actual lubricant. It won't attract dust and grime, like oil will, and provides a slicker surface.

My advice to everyone, is to replace that oil with TriFlow. It really is better.

(now back to our regularly scheduled program) Laughing

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Best regards,
Mike

Tommy Young · From: Ethelsville Alabama

Fred my friend I have never seen anywhere where Bobbe S. Mike c. or any of these guy's told us nor I what they do to make a push/pull guitar have that TONE but have seen them tell that they wouldn't explain it at least some wont. sure wish you would have one of them explain it in detail for us, that my friend is their trade secret as well which screw to do what and etc. sorry but i sure would love to learn more about those guitars as well TOMMY

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Whoa Back there Tommy. The original topic states:

"I have a MSA Classic double ten that has had hard use for 33 years and has been all over the world and I think it has arrived at the point where it is worn out. Lots of slack in the pulling train and string buzz like crazy. It came with a lifetime guarentee but............."

I don't see the word "TONE" anywhere in there. I assumed Quesney was talking about the mechanics of the guitar here, isn't he? "Worn Out" to me means the changer axle, fingers, bell cranks, etc. are worn to the point of not working properly.

Every one of those people I listed have contributed much to individuals on this forum relative to better mechanics. As far as secrets, call Bowman on the phone and ask him how he fine tunes the Emmons Push Pulls and I bet you'll get a 30 minute dissertation on how he does it.

Secrets went out with Curley Chalker's tunings. He used to put a towel over the axe when he went on break. He even went to the point of detuning one of the necks. That's all gone now.

I think one of the biggest problems the steel guitar community faces right now is our inability to share. As a hacker,and somewhat of a "shade treer", in the interest of promoting the instrument I would/have spent some time helping new folks. It only pays to the point of helping the community.

I know you "Tune For Tone" and more power to you--that's free enterprise, but a statement like I quoted in my first post sure grates the wrong way with a lot of folks. But in any case you have a right to say what you want, but I have a right to set the record straight. Have a good day.

Phred

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Bill my old MSA D-10 is around 35 years old,at least that's what Reese told me,I play the 6th neck about 80 percent of the time,No trouble so far,knock on wood.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC !

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

I think the title of the Quesney's post can be taken different ways. Perhaps that's why there's a bit of a debate here.

Given a good quality instrument to start with, I believe:

1. No, you will not wear out the entire instrument.

2. Yes, certain parts will wear out and require rebuilding or replacement.

I started with an MSA Classic. I can't imagine that ever having more wear that a few hundred dollars couldn't restore to like new functionality.

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