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Topic: Fill (behind vocals &c) |
Rick Jolley
From:
Colorado Springs
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Posted 4 Jun 2007 8:48 am |
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Down in OK last year, playing a Jam or two every week, I discovered that most would-be lead guitarists didn't have a clue about fill...i.e. playing behind vocalists and other soloists.
{Earlier, in Colorado Springs, I had a woman who fancied herself a "jam manager" (but didn't play herself) tell me that only one guitar at a time was supposed to play. I told her to put some headphones on and listen to any Nashvill production and she'd hear three, four, or five guitars all the time.)
Anyway, I've noticed that Bluegrass jammers seem to have the same idea. One solo at a time, and nobody plays "licks"...fill...behind. Rhythm, of course, goes on forever, but the general concept of fill is not there.
Of course, if you listen to a good album, there will be fill as well as rhythem behind everything. When I first started playing down in Tucson (1956-64) the old-times explained that you rotated fill as well as solos. The concept seems to have died many places.
Certainly here in Heartland West.
Rick
Playing pretty good fill on the Dobro |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2007 10:08 am
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Some genres, such as Old Timey, generally don't use fills.
The clueless play through everything. They are to be avoided.
_________________
Everyone in the world has two jobs: 1) whatever they do for a living; and 2) music critic. |
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Rick Jolley
From:
Colorado Springs
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Posted 4 Jun 2007 10:23 am
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Thanks for responding, Alan,
Someone last month told me that "Old Timey"--- everyone plays right thru. <hee>
Actually, it takes a lot of clues to play good country OR Old Timey.
My favorite Old Timey is the soundtrack from the movie
"Prairie Home Companion." It swings wonderfully, but, <sob> doesn't have any steel or Dobro.
Oh well, you can't have it all.
Rick |
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Rockne Riddlebarger
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2007 2:02 pm
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| I play behind a singer/songwriter performing Americana music (a mix of country, folk and contemorary acoustic/electric). I play lap steel and dobro along with a mandolinist and electric guitarist. We all play fills and spend a bit of time working out just who (whom?) fills during each part of a song. I love playing fills and I think there is a greater challenge in coming up with really good complimentary fills than any solo. In a solo you usually get to "go for it", a fill has to be a part of the melody line of the vocal.....Rockne |
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Rick Jolley
From:
Colorado Springs
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Posted 4 Jun 2007 2:14 pm
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At the end of the second disk of his excellent instructional DvD, Rob Ickes suggests that you should play fill to fit the mood of the song. If it's a happy song, you play bright (maybe hot) fill, and if it's moody or sad, you play bluesy fill. That was a new thought for me, altho I think I've been doing it unconsciously for a long time.
Rick |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 5 Jun 2007 10:28 am
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I always figured that the blue grass idea of one instrument at a time was sort of traditional, and personally I like it, because it really brings out that particular instrument. ( I love the 5 string banjo breaks  )
In the old days, the steel player got a verse in the middle of a song, but rarely anymore. Whose fault is that? Producers, or the vocalist? Some singers don't want to be up-staged by an excellent musician I think, like maybe an ego problem?
Then again, from what I hear, producers want to call all the shots. |
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Rockne Riddlebarger
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2007 2:05 pm
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I think in bluegrass music real "fills" aren't so prominant becouse of the breakneck speed most of the songs run at. Listen to bluegrass ballads and you will hear fills, or at least dominance, by the instruments in the band over various parts of the song. As far as what a "producer" wants is almost a thing of the past, unless your a Nashville studio guy or something. Most bands preparing songs for live performance are playing to satisfy the collective group or the person fronting the band or writing the songs.I know for my part, the singer/songwriter I play for gives us pretty much free rein to come up with arrangements for the songs.
(see www.myspace.com/markallenutley)...Rockne |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2007 8:58 am
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| Fills can become problematic at large jams. It gets to be cacaphonous (sp) when one instrument is playing a lead and 6 or 8 others are filling. I'm more often complimented for my backgrounds than my fills. I try to lead the chords with mostly doudle and triple stops. I try to create a foundation for the lead player that is clearly subordinate but feels essential. Did I convey any meaning there? |
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Stephan Miller
From:
Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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Posted 6 Jun 2007 8:16 pm
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| Sure. Adds interest and definition to the backup part, and helps the lead player along (if he's paying attention...). |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 6 Jun 2007 9:37 pm
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I think this thread indicates to us the importance of practising a band's sets or programs and having everyone working together. I don't know about you guys but I can pick out within seconds a band that does not practise this properly.
Fills have two spectrums as far as I am concerned: cluttering or beautiful blending or harmony.
I played steel with a six piece old time dance band for a year and our band leader made it very clear to us that he did not want to hear "an" instrument but he wanted to be able to hear it if it was not there.
Does the above sound confusing? All you need to do is think about what the old man wanted from us. |
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Rockne Riddlebarger
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jun 2007 2:09 pm
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| That was well put and right on Les....Rockne |
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Gary C. Dygert
From:
Frankfort, NY, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2007 10:14 am
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| All of these posts make sense, especially Rick's & Les's points. One thing that drives me crazy is multiple instruments playing the melody behind the singer. I know there is an old-time tradition of double or triple melody (banjo, harmonica, & fiddle, for example). Also, there is a tradition of an acoustic Hawaiian steel playing the melody behind the singer. However, balanced, tastefull fills add to a song. Playing to fit the mood of the song is what Jerry Byrd taught. |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Jun 2007 10:46 am
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To quote an old sayin, "too many cooks spoil the soup", sure applies to too many back-up instruments. Too many rythm players can also muddy up the mix. Nothing beats ( for Hawaiian steel music) a bass ,a guitar player, and a ukelele player behind the steel guitar. More than one uke player is good if they are in unison.
just my 2bits |
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