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Topic: MOT ... How Did They Do That? |
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 28 May 2007 11:32 am |
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The tinkerer side of me was wondering how did they apply the MOT coatings from back in the day.
Is / was it a dip, sprayed, or?
Any way to do it today, or is it one of those highly toxic processes that are banned now? |
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Ron Victoria
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 28 May 2007 11:44 am
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It was a thin sheet applied, softened with chemicals. I wonder how many people who worked in those factories developed medical problems. I've seen it discussed here before and am sure someone will post more specifically.
Ron |
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Roman Sonnleitner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 28 May 2007 1:50 pm
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| Actually, similar stuff is still used to cover drum kits sometimes, nowadays... |
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Stephen Dorocke
From:
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
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Posted 28 May 2007 3:46 pm
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I used to build "Chemnitzer" style concertinas for a company in Chicago called Star Concertina. Our instruments were covered with celluloid acetate, or "MOT." A nasty process involving lots of acetone (benzene). The way I did it, and I had to figure this out for myself, was to first soak the cut to size celluloid in a mixture of acetone and water, approx. 1 part acetone to 4 parts water, until the celluloid was "soft." At this point, the celluloid could be applied to the outer "shell" of the instrument and adhered with an acetone based glue, usually diluted somewhat. The glue basically melts the celliloid into the wood. After curing for 24 hours or more I would then work the celluloid with a cabinet scraper and wet/dry abrasive paper until all surface distortions were removed. Then to the buffing wheel. Here's one of my babies.. I hope the picture works..... Like I mentioned, a nasty job. I always wore a respirator, but I think you absorb the acetone anyway. I built the concertinas usually in groups of 6-8, so I'd cover that many cases at a time. At the end of those days, I was quite cranky and would usually take a day or two off to recover from the nasty buzz from the benzene...... The best job I ever had though....
Last edited by Stephen Dorocke on 28 May 2007 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stephen Dorocke
From:
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
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Posted 28 May 2007 4:01 pm
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| Tom, to adress your question, we got the celluloid from Italy, as one of the guys in the shop had generations deep connections in the accordion industry in Castlefidardo, Italy. Celluloid is difficult to obtain now, and I believe it is considered hazardous as it is quite flammable. I'm sure the EPA would not approve, but I haven't seen any written laws.... I do know that shipping cartons containing the celluloid were never marked as such. Fortunately, our shop was located in a notoriously corrupt suburb of Chicago, and there were many "officials" who were sympathetic to the fine accordion and concertina traditions of that region, so they weren't going to let a little toxicity put a damper on the polka party that Star enabled since 1926! |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 28 May 2007 4:09 pm
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Oh my, these stories paint a quite nasty picture of the days when plastic and other synthetic materials were introduced into production of all sorts of things. Imagine all the pollution back then, before it was considered an issue. And health issues for the workers. Dreadful!
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 28 May 2007 4:34 pm
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Wow Stephen ... that is a beautiful instrument 
And thanks for the info, very interesting indeed. |
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Stephen Dorocke
From:
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
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Posted 28 May 2007 5:21 pm
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| Tom>> Thanks, those days at Star are a huge source of pride for myself, Mr. John Bernhardt, the owner/brains of the operation, and the dear departed Maestro Lucio Lorenzeti, tuner extrordinaire. During my run with them, we built 69 "boxes." The one pictured is the second to the last. We had to shut the doors because materials, such as celluloid, and more particularly, the reeds, became "unavailable." Another interesting story.........the place was full of 'em! |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 28 May 2007 7:12 pm
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| Stephen Dorocke wrote: |
| ...and the dear departed Maestro Lucio Lorenzeti, tuner extrordinaire. |
Not to be indelicate, but any idea what the dear departed Maestro died of? 
. |
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Stephen Dorocke
From:
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
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Posted 28 May 2007 8:24 pm
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| Lucio was 74 when he passed on. I'm not sure of the details as I had moved away from Chicago. I believe he developed some type of blood condition or infection. He was a bit of a recluse in his later years, so I'm not sure if anyone knows the details. I'm not sure if it was related to some of the materials we worked with, but it could be a factor for sure. He was primarily the tuner, so he wasn't as directly exposed as someone who was working the celluloid. He also spent many,many years as a professional "stroller" in some of the fine Italian restaurants that Chicago had, back in the day. I do know that he went rather quickly and there wasn't much suffering... As a tuner, he couldn't be touched. He never did understand the "cajun" style though.... |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 29 May 2007 4:59 am Beautiful
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Stephen - that's some beautiful work, there!
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| He also spent many,many years as a professional "stroller" in some of the fine Italian restaurants that Chicago had, back in the day. |
I went to one of those family run Italian places once with a 'stroller.' Great food, and the solo accordionist really made us feel much more immersed in the entire experience. Loved it!
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 29 May 2007 5:46 am
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| There was a post here on the forum that described the Fender application of MOTS on the lap guitars. The first process was soaking the sheet in Acetone which was in large open top drums! Talking about a fire/health hazard. |
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Stephen Dorocke
From:
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
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Posted 29 May 2007 7:12 am
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| Todd-- Thanks--As I said before, building these instruments meant alot to us, and for sure, we made some players very happy. Between some design innovations that John had in mind, and my skills as a cabinet maker, we were able to achieve some tighter tolerances than some of the previous builders. The engraving w/ all the rhinestones was done by someone else, as were the bellows. But there was still many, many operations involved for us. Lucio used to stroll with a violin player, but by the time I came on the scene, he was long finished. I heard him play around the shop though. After I started working there, I became VERY respectful of accordions and concertinas, at least in the hands of certain people. Bill- we used a rectangular pan with lid that contained about a gallon and 1/2 of the diluted solution. None of us were smokers, so we never had an "event." Except the one time when I was cutting some 1/8" celluloid stock on the table saw...... |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 29 May 2007 12:21 pm
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Hello Stephen,
I bet the Star Concertina Co. sold more than a few concertinas to the Polka Bands in and around New Ulm, Minnesota. I used to listen to those bands on KNUJ radio every sunday afternoon in the 1950s. |
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Stephen Dorocke
From:
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
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Posted 29 May 2007 4:37 pm
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| Roger>> Yes, New Ulm.. A concertina stronghold! There's a fellow by the name of Cristy Hengal in New Ulm, who was the other serious builder of Chemnitzer style concertinas. We used to buy reeds from him. He bought a large lot of older style reed sets from Germany many years ago. The saying "they don't make 'em like they used to..." applies here. All was fine with no real competition, the players in Wisconsin and Minnesota played his boxes mainly, and in Illinois, and various other locations east and west, played Star concertinas. However, when I started implementing John B.'s design changes, and was able to deliver an instrument with tighter tolerances all around, word got out, and some of his guys wanted our boxes. So, as far as the reeds go, Christy cut us off! No problem though, as the concertina biz is tough, and John was ready to retire, especially since we were able to produce a superlative concertina. Star concertina, after being in business since 1926 ended on high note indeed! As for me, I'm happy playing music and touring some of the time, and doing whatever it takes, usually some kind of woodwork, the rest of the time. Life is good, and my six years at Star provide me with many great memories and stories! |
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Jan Viljoen
From:
Pretoria, South Africa
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Posted 16 Apr 2011 5:54 am Concertina
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http://kalie.boeremusiek.net/sitemap.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsaaBNK5x5A
http://www.viawias.com/argief.html
I know this the Steel Forum, and I play pedal steel and lap steel, but I want to show you how South Africans play the concertina in 'n SA folk genre.
The picture of me is my handmade concertina 8 side, 8 book with Wheatstone flutes built by Koot Britz mentioned in the 3rd web.
I have played guitar and mandolin with George Faber and Jan Odendaal.
The first web is the official Boeremusiekweb and second is U tube clip.
Third is a birthday bash with the most prominent concertina players in South Africa namely Manie Bodenstein and Nico van Rensburg.
Enjoy!
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_________________
Sierra S10, Stage One, Gibson BR4, Framus, Guya 6&8, Hofner lap, Custom mandolins, Keilwerth sax.
Roland Cube 80XL, Peavey112-Valve King and Special, Marshall 100VS. |
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Bob Stone
From:
Gainesville, FL, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2011 8:03 am
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Hi,
Thanks Stephen. Fascinating stories and beautiful work!
Best,
Bob |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2011 3:24 pm Mother of Fire Marshal
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Read any of several histories of Fender's early years and there's the story (and photos in some of steels in progress) of how the fire marshals stopped by Fender when they were making the early '50s MOT Champ lap steels. (Using methods very consistent with the previous descriptions.) According to the story, the marshals took a quick look, then ran out in a panic and called Fender with their concerns from across the street, lest they become casualties of what they were sure was a holocaust waiting to happen.
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"Gopher, Everett?" |
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