| Author |
Topic: Is this a Sho-Bud or Miller Custom??? |
David Biggers
From:
Texas, USA
|
|
|
 |
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
|
Posted 24 May 2007 1:40 pm |
|
It's a Sho~Bud. The decal in the middle is not original. The greenish square on the left side of the front apron is where the original decal should be. It looks worn off or removed.
From the Unofficial Sho~Bud website:
THE PERMANENT
These were the first pedal steels built by Sho-Bud. Starting out in 1957, Shot Jackson and Buddy Emmons began building cabinets and assembling the pedal mechanism in Madison, Tennessee, just north of Nashville. The cabinets of the first several Permanents were all wood with no metal end plates. Soon after though metal end plates were added to the production. The undercarriage parts were welded together and the pedal setups, unlike today, could not be changed. Eight string, and later nine string cabinets were made with pedals, and by late 1958, the three pedals that we know today on the E9, became standard. Shortly after, the permanent model evolved to the standard ten string. The early permanents had no knee levers and basically consisted of raises only on the pedals(which is still the standard E9 three pedal setup today). During the late 1950's and early 1960's, the C6 neck was also evolving, with the Nashville players adding pedals and strings to eventually becoming standard with 10 strings and 5 pedals. As a result, the double neck soon became the norm and many permanent double necks with pedals were produced through these years. It was not uncommon to see a single neck permanent as well. These pedal steels were very well received by the steel players and became very popular. The permanent, sometimes called the Custom, continued to be produced well into the 1960's. Although Shot Jackson and others were adding knee levers to existing steels since the early 1950's, knee levers were pretty much standard on the Sho-Buds by 1964. Even earlier than this, around 1962 or '63, knee levers were starting to gain in popularity.
In Shot's old catalog, the number of necks, strings and pedals affected the price of the Permanent model, because these pedal steels were for the most part, custom built. For a double neck 10 string the price was $480, with extra pedals, $50 each.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 24 May 2007 3:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Gary Meyer
From:
Sacramento, California, USA
|
Posted 24 May 2007 1:58 pm Isn't it a "Fingertip"?
|
|
| Isn't it a "fingertip" model/ Named after the adjustable screws ? |
|
|
|
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
|
Posted 24 May 2007 2:41 pm
|
|
Both models had adjustable screws at the changer. Here's what the arse of a Fingertip looks like:
.......and here's the Permanent on Ebay:
If I'm not mistaken, only the Fingertip could be tuned by using the fingers; the Permanent had to be tuned by wrench. I think that's right, but I'm not 100% sure. I've played a Fingertip, but not a Permanent. Those who know infinitely more than me will chime in shortly with a definitive answer.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 24 May 2007 3:24 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
|
|
Michael Hardee
|
Posted 24 May 2007 3:19 pm
|
|
| The first pedal steel I ever saw up close was a Permanent that could be a twin to this guitar, played by a local picker in Tampa in the house band for a Connie Smith and Charlie Pride road show around 1965. He was pretty accomodating to a kid who was pestering him with questions, wish I could remember his name. Weldon Myrick was playing a brand new Emmons for Connie Smith and what stands out in my mind was how much better that old Bud sounded compared to the Emmons. I've loved Buds ever since. |
|
|
|
jay thompson
From:
east peoria, il USA
|
Posted 24 May 2007 4:02 pm
|
|
During the very early '60s I saw Price at Kiel Auditorium in St Louis and Emmons was playing a guitar very similar to this one, color, pedals and knee levers. Further, I recall seeing a Sho~Bud brochure with Emmons and the above referenced guitar. An aside, notice there are three knee levers.
Regards, Jay Thompson |
|
|
|
David Biggers
From:
Texas, USA
|
Posted 24 May 2007 4:59 pm
|
|
| Thanks everyone my mistake. |
|
|
|
Glenn Dawson
From:
StephensCity ,Virginia, USA
|
Posted 24 May 2007 6:31 pm
|
|
| Whoever is selling this guitar is lying. They bought it from McLearin Auctions in Woodstock Va in Jan of this year. It had changed hands twice before that. I believe the guitar was original owned by Rudy Gabrioleta of the D.C. area. He is still with us. One pick up had been changed and the guitar needed alot of work. It sold for $1300.00 I had to pack it in the case for the guy that bought it. They had it in, upside down. He said it was going to a Steve in Tenn. |
|
|
|
Dave Biller
From:
Texas, USA
|
Posted 24 May 2007 11:47 pm
|
|
| uh oh, my scam alert buzzer just went off. thank you for the tip Mr. Dawson. i was going to take a shot at this guitar but you scared me off it. |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
|
Posted 25 May 2007 2:54 am
|
|
It looks pretty original to me, including the decal placement. Normally the presentation plate is in the lower right corner and the decal in the upper left corner of the front apron. But these were all custom made guitars at that time. Could be the original owner ordered it that way. If the decal is under the lacquer, it's most certainly original, and it looks like the decal is under the lacquer to me.
It looks like it has the moveable bellcranks, which would make it a mid-60's guitar. Early permanents had welded bellcranks. Also, the Grover Rotomatics suggest mid-60's as well.
Regarding where the seller got the guitar: no comment, though he did say he got it at an estate sale in VA, which frequently are auctions run by auction houses, so I wouldn't worry about that. The seller does have excellent feedback with over 1200 sales, so he's probably not a scammer. He admits ignorance about steels and freely posted the corrections he'd been sent.
David, I wouldn't worry about the guy's honesty so much as I would his unfamiliarity with steels.
Thanks to Chris L. for posting the photo of my old fingertip 'Bud. I'd forgotten about that guitar. Wonder where it is now? It did get sold on eBay awhile back.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
|
|
|
|
Dave Biller
From:
Texas, USA
|
Posted 25 May 2007 8:44 am
|
|
| thanks Herb. i'm gonna send him a message and see what kind of response i get. |
|
|
|
Joe A. Camacho
|
Posted 25 May 2007 9:24 am
|
|
| Herb Steiner wrote: |
Thanks to Chris L. for posting the photo of my old fingertip 'Bud. I'd forgotten about that guitar. Wonder where it is now? It did get sold on eBay awhile back. |
No kidding, how did I let that one slip away? |
|
|
|
Steve Waltz
From:
USA
|
Posted 25 May 2007 10:38 am Miller
|
|
You have to admit that there are a large number of similarities between a sho bud of this style and a Miller of that period. The changer is almost identical, the fingers, the tuning ajustment at the back of the changer, the hardware under the guitar especially with the adjustable parts which the welded sho buds didn't have but this one does, split coil pickups, body style, fancy wood work. Compare this bud with the d-10 Miller that just sold on the forum. That Miller had metal necks but many of them had wood like the bud.
I'd like to have this bud next to my Miller and see how they compare.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=107167
Just an observation.
Steve |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 27 May 2007 9:13 am
|
|
From the auction:"As you can see from the picture a tag has been removed from the front left side of the instrument. When I inquired about this, I was told it was a presentation plate & for sentimental reasons the family removed it as they wanted to keep it"
Looks kinda GREEN where the tag was removed! Is it a Permanent or a Fingertip? I've been trying to find an old Shobud to restore, and this one looks like it might be a good candidate.
JB
http://steelguitaramericas.com/ |
|
|
|
George King
From:
Woodlawn,Illinois
|
Posted 27 May 2007 12:53 pm
|
|
| John, I have an ole sho bud fingertip alot the same color as this one that I might sell.Email me if your interested.Thanks George King gwkrjk2000@hotmail.com |
|
|
|
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
|
Posted 27 May 2007 1:14 pm
|
|
It is a Permanent.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
|
|
|
Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
|
Posted 27 May 2007 2:16 pm
|
|
The steel on Ebay has some of the same bell cranks as my old Miller s-10 but not all of them, the changer
fingers look the same as my Miller also. I don't think it is a Sho-Bud, but a combination. |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
|
Posted 27 May 2007 11:51 pm
|
|
The Miller guitar was a basically a knock-off of Sho~Bud guitars.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 28 May 2007 12:46 am
|
|
what would the scam be, that the seller doesn't know much about the Instrument , if anything at all ?
It's an old Sho-Bud Permanent , it looks to be complete and includes all that other stuff. Actually it looks pretty good to me but I'm not in the market for a 44 year old Steel.(circa '63) |
|
|
|
Dave Biller
From:
Texas, USA
|
Posted 28 May 2007 10:09 am
|
|
| after looking the add over and asking a couple questions, i don't think it's a scam. the seller is still confused about what model it is. i told him it was definitely a permanent but he says since most of the emails he received say it's fingertip, then it MUST be. |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 29 May 2007 12:36 am
|
|
Ha, yeah I wanna see when somebody tunes the pedals on that thing with his fingertips!! 
Seriosly though, I'd say this is one of the later permanents, mid 60's or post that, when they were already building fingertips. Lot of the features on this are similar to fingertips, i.e. handles, placement of the switches, the way endplates extend on the front ( earlier ones were shorter ), the whole underside of the guitar, etc. I have a Madison made permanent, ca. 62-63 on which all these things look very different. Cool guitar nevertheless, too bad the other PU is not original. |
|
|
|
