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Topic: Different National/Valco/Supro/Airline lap steels |
Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 5 May 2007 4:10 am |
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Hi there,
I'm so happily playing my (1947) National New Yorker here, and as it's the only National/Valco made lap steel I've tried, I was wondering if you seasoned players out there could offer some views on this and the various other models out there, as to their different charachteristics, strenghts/weaknesses etc.?
Many thanks!
Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 5 May 2007 8:59 am
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I've tried Bill Creller's National New Yorker and it's an excellent steel. With most steels, you'd have to do a little adjusting to get used to it, but with the New Yorker, it's so easy to just jump right in and play.
We hooked it up to an old National tube amp and the tone was very good. I'm surprised at how much are available for sale on E-Bay. |
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Michael Papenburg
From:
Oakland, CA
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Posted 5 May 2007 10:23 am
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I own a Supro and a National Dynamic lap steel. I don't know the model name of the Supro, but it has the infamous string through pickup. The scale length is 23" so slants are still easier but it has decent sustain as well. I love how the string through pickup sounds. It has a lot of output but also has a lot of clarity. I would describe the tone as being bright with decent low end and neutral to slightly scooped mids. This instrument is one of my favorites and gets a lot of playing time.
Here is an example of what it looks like. Does anyone know what model this is?
My National Dynamic sounds completely different. It has a pickup similar to the one on your New Yorker where the strings go over the pickup. The tone is not quite as bright as my Supro but it also doesn't have much low end so it sounds smaller and thinner to my ears. Where my Supro sounds very open, the National sounds very focused with an almost hollow, vocal tonality. I "like" the Dynamic but I don't love it. I've never played another Dynamic so I don't know if mine is unusual.
I tend to use the Dynamic for more rock oriented playing and the Supro for pretty much anything. |
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Rick Batey
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Posted 5 May 2007 10:54 am
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Michael, your white Supro is a Comet aka model S410H, original price $55.
I have a brochure courtesy of Michael Lee Allen which refers to the pickup as the 'fully adjustable Locked-Power unit'! |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 5 May 2007 11:46 am
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Fred, New Yorkers and Dynamics have regular single coil pickups and they sound real good.
I've used both models for a lot of recordings.
Many other models such as this Supro Supreme have the string-through pickups (the ones Rick Aiello makes NIBros for)
These guitars will scream and moan, especially when plugged into a small tube amp.
The same guitar was produced under several different brand names and models - Supro Clipper, Oahu, McKinney, Bronson, National Chicagoan etc.
More pics here and here and here and here. |
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Michael Papenburg
From:
Oakland, CA
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Posted 6 May 2007 12:22 pm
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| Rick Batey wrote: |
Michael, your white Supro is a Comet aka model S410H, original price $55.
I have a brochure courtesy of Michael Lee Allen which refers to the pickup as the 'fully adjustable Locked-Power unit'! |
Thanks for that info, I really appreciate it. Is there a way to tell what year it was made by the serial number? Mine is T4225. |
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Rick Batey
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Posted 6 May 2007 1:09 pm
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That'll be a 1958. Click here for National/Valco serial numbers...
Re. your Dynamic's pickup – it should be plenty strong and not lacking in bass... check out this where Steinar Gregertsen gives some useful info about his Dynamic's tone control wiring. |
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Michael Papenburg
From:
Oakland, CA
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Posted 7 May 2007 8:03 am
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| Rick Batey wrote: |
That'll be a 1958. Click here for National/Valco serial numbers...
Re. your Dynamic's pickup – it should be plenty strong and not lacking in bass... check out this where Steinar Gregertsen gives some useful info about his Dynamic's tone control wiring. |
Thank you SO much for your post. I thought that something was wrong with my pickup and was considering selling it. I'm going to bring my Dynamic to have the tone pot replaced asap.
I love this place  . |
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Michael Papenburg
From:
Oakland, CA
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Posted 12 May 2007 8:39 pm
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Today I had my tech remove the extra capacitors from my National Dynamic and wire it like a traditional guitar tone pot. It sounds incredibly different than it did before. Now the tone is big and full with at least twice the output it used to have. In fact, the output is so extreme I'm not sure if you can get a clean tone out of it. That's OK with me, though, because I have other laps that cover clean tones quite nicely.
I don't know if this will mean anything to you guys, but I played it through a Fender Dual Showman and it was overdriving the input of the amp with it's volume on 2-1/2. Dual Showmans normally are VERY clean amps with tons of headroom. Anyway, now my Dynamic is perfect for copping David Lindley's distorted tone - no pedals needed. I love it! |
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Craig Prior
From:
National City, California, USA
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Posted 12 May 2007 9:43 pm
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| V 1267. I've got a '47. |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 13 May 2007 2:25 am
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| Michael Papenburg wrote: |
| Anyway, now my Dynamic is perfect for copping David Lindley's distorted tone - no pedals needed. I love it! |
Glad you got it sorted out Michael. 
I was very surprised by how much effect that modification had to the sound of my early-60s Dynamic (the red/white model).
A late 40s model I owned didn't have that issue at all, so I don't know how they got the idea to wire the later models like they did...
Steinar
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
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Michael Papenburg
From:
Oakland, CA
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Posted 13 May 2007 9:48 am
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I wonder if they felt that the pickup was too hot and tried to devise a way to tame it a bit. My tech told me that the first cap filters off a ton of low end and then the signal is dropped down by the second one even more. As an aside, he told me that the first cap is the main one used in vintage Hiwatt amps to give them a brighter tone with less low end.
Anyway, I was considering selling my Dynamic until I read about what you experienced. Thanks. |
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