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Topic: Copedent |
Phill Morris
From:
South Wales, UK
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Posted 9 Jan 2007 3:45 pm |
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Hi Guys
As I said before I am new to steel playing ..
Silly question No one
What is a Copedent ?? either fixed or not .
I have seen this mentioned a few times and have no idea what you are all on about .
Thanks
Phill |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 9 Jan 2007 3:55 pm
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Hi Phil,
welcome aboard. You know, steel guitar is addictive, so we're all COdePEnDENT here 
Actually, it's a term that was coined by Tom Bradshaw that refers to the tuning and how the pedals and levers work in the tuning. Here's the link to some pedal steel tunings, or copedents:
http://b0b.com/tunings/
Cheers,
Cliff |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Colby Tipton
From:
Crosby, Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2007 4:08 pm
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It's what you want it to be.
Colby |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 12 Jan 2007 5:53 am
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AHA!!!!
In Tom Bradshaw's book on Chord Construction (which he started in 1965, and I have the 1977 edition), Tom expalins the use, application, spelling, and pronounciation of the word "copedEnt". It's supposed to be pronounced "co-pee-dent".
HOWEVER............
In Winnie's book, circa 1975 (I bought mine in 1977), right there at the top of page 120, and sprinkled several times thru the pages, Winnie spelled the word as "copedAnt".
As for the Wikipedia entry that "copedant is an erroneous and unfortunate alternate spelling"... from now on, in Winnie's honor, I'm gonna spell "musical arrangemant" with an "A", and if anyone asks I'll tell 'em why  |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2007 9:43 am
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The Wikipedia entry says
| Quote: |
| It is short for "ChOrd PEDal arrangemENT". |
While I do use the word, I've always found the reference to chords confusing. A copedent really has nothing to do with chords - it can refer to a scale-based pedal steel tuning as well. See my F diatonic copedent as an example.
_________________
Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b)
Williams D-12 crossover (ext E9, C6add9), Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 12 Jan 2007 11:24 am
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| I thought the "a" came from the last syllable of "pedal", and only the "nt" came from "arrangement." So when I found myself spelling it "copedent" I corrected myself to "copedant." Now I'm totally confused. One thing I am clear about - I ain't saying "co-PEE-dent." It sounds vaguely obscene, and corny - like people who say "PEE-CAN" instead of puh-CAHN." We don't say "PEE-dahl," we say "PEH-dahl." So for me it is pronounced "co-PEH-dunt," no matter how you spell it. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 21 Apr 2007 5:05 pm Re: Copedent
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| Phill Morris wrote: |
What is a Copedent ?? |
A copedent is a combination of the tuning of the instrument and the pedals and kneelevers. It defines how you tune the instrument and what the pedals do when you press them. Unlike other instruments, the pedal steel guitar has many tunings, and, although there's a certain amount of standardisation, players like to set their pedals up as they want them, this is particularly so beyond the first three pedals.
The thing to remember is that there's no wrong or right way to set the instrument up. But just remember that if you devise a copedent unlike anyone else's you don't have their advice to draw on and you have to work everything out for yourself. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 6:15 am Re: Copedent
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| Alan F. Brookes wrote: |
| But just remember that if you devise a copedent unlike anyone else's you don't have their advice to draw on and you have to work everything out for yourself. |
And you should probably resign yourself to being the only one to play it.
I wouldn't want to hear someone sitting down at mine and saying 'What is this wacky thing...?' |
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 6:43 am
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| Quote: |
| We don't say "PEE-dahl," we say "PEH-dahl." So for me it is pronounced "co-PEH-dunt," no matter how you spell it. |
A very good case, to the mind of this English/Speech teacher. I'm with you, Dave.
(However, any comment on how we came to establish "PEE-nal" institutions to address "PEH-nalty" for bad behavior?)
PS: Compliments on commas and periods well-placed! |
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Dennis Schell
From:
Shingletown, Shasta county, Kalifornia
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 7:04 am My annunciatin'
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Hmmm. Always been "co PEE dent" to me...
"Co PEH dent"? Never heard of it...
(Maybe that's a "west coast brush okie" thing?)
Dennis
_________________
"Bucks Owin" |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 8:20 am
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Uh-oh. James C., if you're gonna start grading English here on the Forum, you're gonna have your hands full. For an English/speech teacher, reading some of the stuff here on the Forum must be like scratching your back with barbed-wire.  |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 9:17 am
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Before Tom ever invented that word, "Copedent" we always called it a Tuning. Like say " What Tuning do you have on there??? Of course that was way before Pedals...al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 10:42 am
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| Ray Minich wrote: |
| ...In Tom Bradshaw's book on Chord Construction ... It's supposed to be pronounced "co-pee-dent". |
Since pedal, pedantic, pedestrian, etc., all come from the Latin word for FOOT, it HAS to be pronounced CO-PEDDANT. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 11:49 am
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What's the point of jargon that we can't even agree on the spelling, much less the pronunciation?
Why not just call it "setup?" Everybody knows what it means. Everybody knows how to spell it. Everybody knows how to pronounce it. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 2:04 pm
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I say 'coped.'
I'm so hip. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 6:24 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
What's the point of jargon that we can't even agree on the spelling, much less the pronunciation?
Why not just call it "setup?" Everybody knows what it means. Everybody knows how to spell it. Everybody knows how to pronounce it. |
If you look up "setup" in the dictionary, there's no mention of pedal steel. Copedent is more precise.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 6:55 pm
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With all due respect to the word's originator, who has contributed much to the world of steel guitar, I have always disliked "copedent" and made a point of not using it.
"Setup" seems perfectly and adequately descriptive to me. The pedals and knee levers are "set up" to give x notes.
What's wrong with "tuning"? We're talking about the notes you tune the instrument itself to--whether some of the notes are obtained by activating mechanisms is irrelevant.
"Tuning & setup" would seem to be the truly comprehensive term, if you want to be exact. And it's comprehensible to any person. Having a strangely contrived term when plain English would do seems only to reinforce the image of the instrument as an exotic, weird contraption.
(Though I will admit I sometimes get a kick out of people seeing it as an exotic, weird contraption! ) |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 7:32 pm Is it just me... ?
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RE: co-PEE-dEnt (Bradshaw) v. co-PEH-dAnt, co-PEH-dUnt, et al.
Is it just me, or are there others amongst us who find it bizarre, yet somehow strangely characteristic of the steel community, that there are those who feel it's appropriate to correct the pronunciation of the guy who COINED THE TERM in the first place?  
A more important topic for erudite discussion: how many angels can dance on the tip of a finger pick? 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 22 Apr 2007 8:08 pm
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I don't think it's strange at all. Language always evolves - it's the masses that really decide how words are pronounced, spelled, and used. Language must be generally accepted to be useful, IMO.
So if most people are uncomfortable saying co-PEE-dEnt, they are going to say it "their" way. If enough people pick up on that, I expect momentum will eventually move it in that direction.
The Linux community has the same issue. There are at least 3 "standard" ways to pronounce Linux, regardless of how Linus Torvalds pronounces it, and tons more "discussion" of that point than we will ever have going on here.
Personally - unless I know I'm talking to cognoscenti, I say "setup", to avoid totally confusing them. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 23 Apr 2007 6:12 am
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Herb, would that finger pick be a Grover? A National? or a Dunlop?  Steel or Plastic? |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 23 Apr 2007 6:30 am
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Well, "setup" does mostly work okay. I never used "coped"-whatever until I joined the Forum and got edgicated. But if you think about it, "setup" could also refer to things like leg height, pedal stiffness, type of pickup, string spacing, and even keyhead type. And while some might think of the instrument as exotic and strange, others think of it as a red-neck contraption. So having some precise multisyllabic terms might add a little needed sophistication for some.
Just because Tom Bradshaw came up with the first suggestion for a precise term for the combination of string tuning and pedal/lever changes, I don't think that means the steeler community can't evolve the term into the most convenient and acceptable term. From Winnie's book on, the "-ant" form certainly seems to have a strong natural tendency. Especially combined with "peh" in the middle, it sounds more like "pedal," which is reminiscent of the name of the instrument, and just seems to roll off the tongue and sound better than the two long e's together in "co-PEE-dint." It wont be the first time a scientific term has evolved and had a variant spelling and pronunciation.
I don't mind the reference of the first syllable to the term "chord." From the origens of the instrument, the vast majority of steel guitars have been based on an open chord tuning. This unique characteristic in fact distinguishes the instrument from standard guitar, and especially from harps, which mostly have a scale tuning. The existence of some rare steels (which have never caught on) with a harp-like scale-based tuning does not seem to change that to me. When players ask what the copedant is, they are mostly asking, "What chord are the strings tuned to," and, "What changes do the pedals and levers give?" If you've added so many strings you have more of a scale than a chord, I don't think that fine point really matters. You could also look upon the "co" as referring to the "COoperative" arrangement of the strings, pedals, and levers.
Last edited by David Doggett on 23 Apr 2007 6:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2007 6:37 am it's no setup
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Tom once told me that he didn't like the word "setup" because it's often used in reference to the ingredients a mixed cocktail.
My dictionary has several meanings for "setup", including "a contest prearranged to result in an easy or faked victory" and "a deceptive scheme, such as a fraud or hoax", but none of them make any reference to pedal steel.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 23 Apr 2007 6:50 am
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| And by the way, that Wikipedia scorn for the "copedant" variation was undoubtedly put there by some Forumite expressing his own opinion. A certain member with an alphanumeric handle has been known to enter stuff there. Any one of us could go there any time and change that or add more. |
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ed packard
From:
Show Low AZ
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Posted 23 Apr 2007 7:22 am
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B0b...does your dictionary have Steel Guitar, or Pedal Steel Guitar as an entry?
SETUP...Webster's New World Dictionary = "1. The plan, makeup etc. of equipment, an organization...the details of a situation, plan, etc."
Then "2. = (colloq) a contest etc. arranged to result in an easy victory."....AIN'T no "easy victory" on PSG.
Not many outside of the PSG world, and quite a few within it know the word "copedent/ant, let alone it's derivation, or agree on how to pronounce it.
Co = chords probably, considering the era and how the PSG evolved to that time. PED = Pedal, or Latin abr for foot. No mention of levers.
Pronounciation and spelling for most "ENGLISH" words varies greatly with time and place. ENGLISH itself is a collection of distorted words from previous languages.
I like "setup". |
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