Good, cheap(ish), old tube amp?

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

While I play mainly acoustic steel guitar, having recently re-discovered my National New Yorker has led me to thinking about amps. (Just what I needed! Something else to potentially buy! Confused

)

I have a Marshall 100W Valvestate amp that's quite good and versatile, but big and heavy.

I also have a Roland Microcube, but I really don't think it cuts it when it comes to bottom end.

So, what about all those vintage little tube amps that frequent eBay? Any dos and don'ts I should be aware of if I go looking for one? I honestly wouldn't want to spend more than a few hundred dollars, also keeping in mind that shipping an amp over the pond is not so cheap.

I'm looking for something with a warm smooth tone that would suit the New Yorker. Any recommendations?

Many thanks in advance for any advice! Smile

All the best,

Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

there a stacks of Fender Champs in small guitar stores on this side of the pond. Gibson Skylark also shows up often. depending on the vintage they start around 200 and go up. they are all real.
small new amps...the Epi Valve has been getting a lot of good reports. they come in various sizes and may exist on your continent. the Epiphone amps actually have a cool retro styling. would be appropriate for a lap player.

Randy Cordle · From: Illinois, USA

Hi, Fred.
If you purchase a vintage amp you need to factor in the addition of a grounded line cord and replacement of filter capacitors at bare minimum for your safety and the safety of the amp. Unless you really need vintage I'd second the Epi Valve Jr. combo suggestion ($150 USD), or spend a little more and get a Peavey Royal 8 five watt tube amp with 8" speaker ($200 USD). Fender has also added a re-assue of the original Champ 600 to its current product line, although it is not the same as the original Champ 600. Cool styling, though. With every amp manufacturer picking up on the desire of folks to have a small tube amp, it's hard to believe that Fender waited so long to enter the fray, as the Champ is certainly the most desireable in the used vintage market.
_________________
www.Bluestemstrings.com

Rick Alexander · From: Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Fred, one thing most vintage tube amps on eBay have in common is that no matter what the seller says - they arrive either DOA or in need of TLC.
So it's important to either be an amp tech or have a working relationship with one before you buy an old amp on eBay. I'm very fortunate to be friends with a tube amp genius - http://andysamps.com. Since hooking up with him I have acquired several amps on eBay. Every single one had problems when I got it, but they all work fine now.
Tweed, Brown and Blackface Fenders are the most desireable. I like my 53 Deluxe for lap steel. It really does the New Yorker justice.

David Doggett · Posted 11 Apr 2007 6:06 am

Fred, being in the U.K., you should take a look at the Vox Valvetronix small amps. They are very reasonably priced, amazingly small and lightweight, yet they have a wide variety of clean and dirty tube sounds and some basic effects. Of course they are not vintage, and have a flashy modern look. And they are cheaply made with some reliability issues. But for the price, you can buy two or three for spares. They are a really fun and inexpensive thing to mess around with while you are saving up that small fortune needed for a vintage small tube amp. Unlike the new market, the vintage market seems to have an upside down price scale where the smaller the amp is, the more it costs.

Phil Morgan · From: United Kingdom

Hi Fred,
I just recorded with a little Fender Blues Junior. There are plenty around, and they sound great - I think they are around £300.00 or so (a bit of money to take a risk). You could pop into a Guitar shop, with your Steel and have a go. I play a Fender Dual Pro and a Rick Triple Console and normally use my
Fender Vibrosonic for both, however, I have to say this little 'Junior was excellent, probably not for a "big" gig, but ok for small shows, practice, recording etc.
One of the earlier replies mentioned the new Epiphone series. I have one and will part with it - I play my Gibson BR9 through it. Sounds sweet.
We'll have to meet up sometime - I played down your way at The Engine Room just last Saturday (31st March) - great venue.
Phil

Rick Batey · Posted 11 Apr 2007 6:28 am

Fred, don't buy an amp off eBay from the US. Many have problems, as stated above, and you'll need a 110v/240v transformer.

Keep your eyes peeled for an old Watkins/WEM Dominator, a really warm-sounding 15-watt 1x12" UK-built all-valve combo. The '60s two-tone ones can be pricey but the ’70s Mark III ones sound great and go for as little as £150. No reverb, mind.

Lots of Watkins amp information here!

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

I cant agree about using Fender tweed amps for steel, at least for Hawaiian music. They are likely great for blues etc.

Just finished my Princeton Reverb clone, and it's a great sounding amp for smooth/ mellow steel guitar. Trouble is, the originals are going for $ 1200 to over $ 2000 on ebay.

I also built a Tweed Deluxe. In my opinion it's not for Hawaiian music.
It's gonna go byby. And it wasn't cheap to build, over $650 bucks.

Fred, you will have to use an auto transformer to match your UK line voltage to a US amp wont you ??

David Doggett · Posted 11 Apr 2007 12:09 pm

Bill C., please explain? Were the Fender Tweeds not clean enough for Hawaiian or what? Just curious.

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

Yeah David Even the rock guys wondered why I built it. They break up good for rock music.

Kevin Brown · From: England

Fred, get down to GAK in Brighton and try the new epiphone valve junior, fender champ style Chinese built afforbable, one knob all tube amp, about £110.00
Google it and see. I think you'd be foolish to at least not try it, two of us here in our lap club have them, very satisfied.

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

Thanks so much to all of you for the good advice! So, with my thin wallet and geographical location, I think the Epiphone Valve Junior seems like the ticket. I will try it out in the weekend.

Any idea what a suitable reverb unit/pedal that doesn't break the bank would be?

Thanks again!

All the best,

Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

Kevin,

Your friends who have Epiphone Valve Junior amps, have they done any mods? Mike at GAK told me that they could be improved with some better capacitors (or similar) and I saw "hot-rodded" ones on eBay (UK) for £180. I was quoted £97 for the stock one at GAK.

Cheers! Any Brighton gigs soon?

Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

I chanced to pickup an Epiphone Electra tube amp with about a 10 inch speaker; most likely a 1965 era or thereabouts.

It has great tone; RECORDS in the studio very well; clean with a full range of quality sounds; and, has a most suitable reverb mounted therein.

At the local music fix-it shoppe, I discovered that they had several more of similar model by Epiphone.

I also have a Harmony and Oahu, both tubes and with 8 inch Rola speaks that are simply out of this world.
Rich sounds throughout the while spectrum and tone to burn. Neither, however, has a reverb installed.

Don't be too quick to acquire what everbody else has, lest you sound just like them.

Kevin Brown · From: England

Fred, I've tried both the mod and stock. Id take the stock first see how you get on, works fine for me, thats what I have and saved some buckos in the process. BUT beware of a design fault, the output valve has been placed very close to the loud speaker and in some cases a slight glassy rattle can occur at some freqs (speaker proximity problem) So when checking the amp, play quietly on each string at a time going up the entire fretboard, if no buzzes occur, grab the amp very quickly and have your card ready. For reverb google 'Electro Harmonics Holy Grail' Check user reviews. This is the set up I'd reccomend for starters, you can upgrade later for the modded version, two guys in UK do very good mods, but Id go stock first and see how you get on. Use mine with my valco/oahu laps and it delivers for me at a great price.

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Kevin's reply sounds the best to me, too.
Good suggestion.
Best of luck to you.
-paul

Jeff Au Hoy · From: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Ray, your opinion's no good. Your tone is incredible no matter what you play thru.

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Fred,

what exactly do you want to use the amp for? Playing at home, gigging, what size of venues? What kind of sounds do you need - only clean (which means you'll need a more powerful amp), or mostly overdriven/dirty ones?

I personally like the way my Carvin Vintage 16 sounds with my lap steel, it has just enough clean headroom for keeping up in my band - our drummer plays rather relaxed, often with rods or jazz brushes; for a heavy-hitting rock-drummer this 15W amp doesn't have enough clean headroom, and it definitely has to be miked when playing live.
If I want to play with crunchy overdrive, the Carvin has quite enough power for live playing, though - it's just the clean headroom that isn't there...

So, for playing live, or with a drummer, with clean sounds, look for tube amps with at least 40 to 50 W, anything lower will distort too early; if you mainly want to use overdrive sounds, a tube amp in the 15 W range will be about right; if you want to have plenty of bottom end, you'll need at least a single 12" speaker (better: 2x 12" or 1x 15", 4x 10" might alos get you there, stay away from single 10" speaker combos).

I'd also recommend against buying a used amp from the US - shipping will be expensive (tube amps are HEAVY - expect to pay about 150 to 200 USD for shipping only!), you'll need a transformer, and most old amps need to be serviced (old caps have to be replaced), unless a previous owner did that.

As for reasonably priced new tube amps, look at the Peavey Classic 30 and Delta Blues (both reliable, nice sounding amps), the Fender Pro Jr., Hot Rod Deluxe and Blues Jr., the Laney LC and VC series, or the Carvin Vintage series.

BTW, I also have an Epiphone Valve Jr. (I use it as a practice amp at home) - and I don't think it is the right amp for you: with its 5W, it has barely enough clean headroom to keep up with an unamplified acoustic guitar and an unmiked singer; there's no way you'll keep up with a band with this amp (unless you play full-on distorted sounds all the time, or unless you mike it and run it through a PA). On the other hand, if I do want to get full-on overdive sounds out of it, it is too loud for practicing at my city apartment.
Also, the combo version, with it's 8" speaker doesn't have a whole lot of bottom end - you'd have to get the head version, and an extra 1x12" or 2x12" speaker cabinet.
Another point: in stock, factory form, this amp doesn't really have a great sound - it is rather dark, no brilliance, rather constipated - that's why there are quite a few online sites for modding this amp (I also modded mine, changed the input resistor values and added a tone control) - but: DON'T DO THAT IF YOU AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH WORKING ON TUBE AMPS or you'll electrocute yourself. It will also improve quite a bit if the stock EL84 tube is changed for a JJ EL84 (BTW, EL84 amps aren'T the best amps in the first place if you need lots of bottom end - in that case go with 6L6-tube amps).

If you absolutely insist on getting the Epi Valve Jr. (which will only be useful as a clean practice amp at home, or as an amp for only playing distorted with a band), consider this one instead:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_ga5.htm

- this is exactly the same amp as the Epiphone, from the same Chinese factory, but rebranded as Harley Benton for this German mail order music store (some users on German forums have opened them up, and internally they are identical!), for quite a bit less money (even with shipping figured in), plus, the Harley Benton alread has the tone control mod on-board!

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

Thanks guys (vielen Dank, Roman! Smile

). Just came home from trying out the Epiphone Valve Junior with my New Yorker in a store (and brought my Roland Microcube along for comparison and potential trade). Unfortunately, it wasn't the amp for me. As the New Yorker (with its "Hawaiian", "Chimes" and "Harp" 3-step tone control) is rather limited when it comes to modifying the sound, the volume-knob-only amp was too limited.

Roman, I'm looking for an amp where a warm, clean sound is a priority. I have a Marshall Valvestate AVT2000 100W amp, and I can actually get really cool sounds out of that, I just wish I could find something smaller so that I could sell this amp (that is too big and heavy now that I don't have a rock band anymore Wink

).

I'll keep looking. The guy in the shop mentioned a new Fender (cheap) tube amp that will hit the (UK) market soon. Will try that too.

Thanks again everyone for all the advice! Lots of useful info when I try amps out in the future.

Cheers,

Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

That new Fender would be Champion 600 (which is named after a classic model, but doesn't really have anything to do with its ancestor, except for name and look); haven't seen it in store myself, but I have heard from some guys that it doesn't sound too great - it's Fender's answer to the Epi VJr., but has an even smaller 6" speaker; here's a link: http://www.musik-schmidt.de/osc-schmidt/catalog/fender-champion-600-roehrencombo-p-21419.html Peavey also has some similar amps, the Nano Valve and a larger model, the ValveKing Royal 8.

Here are some suggestions of amps you should check out: (I'm only using these links so you can see pics, descriptions, and price range - I guess you could find most of these at your local music stores):

http://www.thomann.de/gb/laney_lc15r_egitarrencombo.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/laney_vc15110_gitarrencombo.htm

shorter link

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_pro_junior.htm

http://www.musik-schmidt.de/osc-schmidt/catalog/fender-blues-junior-112-black-p-14725.html

http://www.thomann.de/gb/laney_vc30112_egitarrencombo.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/peavey_classic_30.htm
- this one would be a great choice, very good clean sound; also comes in black:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/peavey_classic30.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/laney_lc30ii.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/hugheskettner_edition_tube_20th_anniversary.htm
- another great choice, this one has a very warm clean sound, nice reverb, and full bottom end (due to cabinet construction).

http://www.thomann.de/gb/vox_ac15_cc1.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_hot_rod_deluxe.htm

http://www.musik-schmidt.de/osc-schmidt/catalog/carvin-vintage16-combo-p-14545.html
- this is the amp I use myself, should work for the sound you're looking for.

shorter link
- if it is still inside you price range, another great choice, mainly because of the 15" speaker.

Stephan Miller · From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

Hey Fred, I fully agree with Roman's description of the Hughes & Kettner 20-watt Edition Tube. Walked into a music shop 5 yrs ago to check out a guitar, used the H & K to play through-- wound up nixing the guitar and buying the amp! Its clean channel rivals any other I've heard in a 1 X 12 combo amp-- very warm and full...and loud for 20 watts. Nice reverb, and weighs 38 lbs. Easily enough clean headroom for a modest-size club gig, won't get buried by an "assertive" rhythm section, sounds good at any volume, and takes well to a good overdrive pedal.
(Mine has never needed any maintenance except for new tubes.)

As a German-made amp it should present you with advantages in voltage compatibilty and possible shipping costs.

--Steve

Kevin Brown · From: England

Hi Fred sorry you didnt like the epiphone, I was merely responding to the ' So, what about all those vintage little tube amps that frequent eBay? query. They are not designed to have much headroom but i presumed thats what you wanted, thre are LOADS of 20 watters out there, but getting a cheapie might be tough, hence the valave junior response

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

Hi Kevin! It was fun to try it, so no worries at all! Smile

Thanks for the info to you and everyone else - I've learnt a lot from this thread. (Conclusion: For the time being, stick with the Marshall and wait until you have a bit more cash and get a bigger tube amp. The one that Roman and Steve mentioned looks intriguing).

Cheers folks!

Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Fred Kinbom · From: Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.

Thanks again everyone for all the useful info in this thread. I am now seriously considering the Hughes & Kettner Edition Tube 20th Anniversary amp as it seems great for a warm, clean tone - will try it out sometime in the coming week. I'm also on the lookout for used ones, so I was wondering - is there any difference between the "20th Anniversary" one and the one that's just called "Edition Tube"?

Thanks!

Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium

Stephan Miller · From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

Hi Fred-- well, the price has gone up 20-25% in the last 5 yrs. since I bought mine. Also, mine came with a Celestion speaker and the 20th Anniv. issue has an Eminence. Finally, check the weight-- mine weighs around 38 lbs., and somewhere I saw the new ones listed at 24 kgs., which is around 15 lbs. heavier!? I'd be curious to hear your impressions...I bought mine for the clean channel (IMO the gain channel is over the top, so the nifty footswitch never gets used)...if you don't think the new ones are worth the cash, try and track down an earlier model.

Forum Index > Electronics	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic