Pedal steel sounds on lap steel?

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

I have been getting questions from people on how to best emulate the sound of a pedal steel on a lap steel. For various reasons (cost, complexity, availability) pedal steels aren't an option in some parts of the world.
What tips would you give to an aspiring steel player who wanted to sound like a pedal steel but only has a lap steel?

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

First and foremost (IMO), understand the actual functions of the A & B pedals in an E9 tuning as to what they move in a major triad.

Ron Brennan · From: Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ

Brad,

IMHO: An eight string is optimal with high quality sustain. Must be able to do Slants, Reverses, String Pulls, good vibrato, a decent effects pedal like an RV3 & volume pedal.

You have to think chords/notes like a pedal player. It took me a great deal of time, but I finally got down Jeff Neuman's version of "I love you so much it hurts". Learning this song helped me immensly on how to emulate a Pedal Sound on a non-pedal from this Master. We all miss him.

Great Question!!! I'm sure there are others with better ideas than I, on how to answer your question....let's see!!! I forgot to mention, much more use of the whole neck, far more than a peddler, C6th helps too!! TX

Rgds,
Ron

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JCFSGC member 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Stringmaster D8,
"67" Telecaster,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10's

[This message was edited by Ron Brennan on 29 June 2006 at 01:00 PM.]

[This message was edited by Ron Brennan on 29 June 2006 at 01:03 PM.]

[This message was edited by Ron Brennan on 29 June 2006 at 01:05 PM.]

Harry Dietrich · From: Robesonia, Pennsylvania, USA, R.I.P.

Hi Brad

I would tell him to use my tuning:

Lo to Hi: BEG#BEG#, you have to have that high G# on the first string, and learn to do string pulls.

AND LISTEN TO A LOT OF PEDAL STEEL MUSIC...MAINLY COUNTRY MUSIC!

Harry

Gary Anwyl · From: Palo Alto, CA

Good topic! I'm interested in seeing the replies.

The blugrass dobro tune "Cuttin' the Grass" has a pedal steel sounding part in it.

It uses these straight bar and slant positions. It slides between them to get a pedal steel sounding I-IV kind of transition.



    B    E    B    B    B11? E   A   E


D |-16---18---16---13---11---9---11--9-------------|


B |-16---17---16---12---10---9---10--9-------------|


G |-16---16---16---11----9---9----9--9-------------|


D |------------------------------------------------|


B |------------------------------------------------|


G |------------------------------------------------|

Here's a rough tab. Slides between notes are marked with '/' or '\'. A '~' indicates undamped notes that ring out.






D |-16/18~~~~~~~18~\16~~~~~~~~--13~~~~~~~~~-11~~~~~~~~~--9~~~~~9/11----11--9--|


B |----------17~~~~-------16~~--------12~~~-------10~~~------9~~----10--------|


G |-------16~~~~~~~----16~~~~~-----11~~~~~~-----9~~~~~~----9~~~~--------------|


D |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|


B |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|


G |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Here's a very rough recording that gives you an idea of what it sounds like.
http://www.planetgaa.com/mp3/CTG.mp3

[This message was edited by Gary Anwyl on 01 July 2006 at 09:06 AM.]

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

First you almost have to know how to play pedal steel or have the knowledge of how one works musically & mechanically that a pedal player would have - if that's possible without being a pedal player. Then it's just a matter of finding those moves thru resolving in and out of slants. Otherwise it's like trying to translate one language into another without knowing the first language. BTW I've tried to emulate E9 pedals(which I play)on an 8-string 6th tuning and it's a tricky,difficult business that rarely comes close except for a few primitive moves.
-MJ-

Roy Thomson · From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada

A few years ago I posted a Lap Steel
Solo that is done on C6th standard tuning
E-C-A-G-E-C High to Low.
It has pedal steel licks and the feel throughout. This is one approach. I do another also as in the case of Last Date
with a technique to get from the 1 to 1V chords and the V to 1 chord without bar slants.
On the six string Leavitt tuning I use the
string pull technique to provide another
simulation.
I am sure I still have the files for Lappin
It up if any are interested please email me.
roythomson@eastlink.ca
Here is the Link: http://freefilehosting.net/?id=pdH2lqXZ

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http://www.clictab.com/RoyT/Roy_Thomson_Steel_Courses.htm

Tim Tweedale · From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada

A whole tone string pull on the 2nd string (with the top string sounding too) in a 151351 tuning (open D or open E); with appropriate vibrato and volume pedal control, this is the sound that many listeners associate with the sound of pedal steel.

-Tim

[This message was edited by Tim Tweedale on 30 June 2006 at 12:23 AM.]

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Stephan Miller · From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA

If by "emulate" you mean "duplicate", then I'm with MJ-- few non-pedal players are persuasive at this, even for a few measures. Jerry Byrd, Billy Robinson and Roy Thompson are among the exceptions.

If "emulate" means to "strongly suggest" the pedal steel sound, then I think good volume pedal technique is the quickest way, coupled with various ways of achieving that moving-tone-against-a-stable-tone sound: string-pulling (esp. within a chord), slants that move & resolve vertically on the same strings, and sliding two- and three-string grips against a ringing open string.

Rick Batey · Posted 30 Jun 2006 11:24 am

Thanks, many nice ideas on this thread.

I’ve had a little fun lately by altering an A6 tuning (low to high - C#, E, F#, A, C#, E, aka 3, 5, 6, 1, 3, 5) by lowering the top E down to B to get a 2nd instead of a 5th. I’m not sure, but this might be what they call a re-entrant tuning. Leave the top string alone and you’ve essentially got a C6th tuning transposed to A, but bring the B in and you get a sus2 sound that has a certain PSG E9 quality to my ears... plus, since the tension on the top string is so low, it’s not hard to do finger-pulls to get a 9th-to-major 3rd move.

Sorry if I’ve got my 2nds and 9ths mixed up. I’m never sure about that one.

Roy Thomson · From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada

Here is a sample of my Lap Date on 6string
C6th. There are some slants but not where
one would expect them. Email me for
instruction on Tab and help to learn.
roythomson@eastlink.ca http://freefilehosting.net/?id=pdHwkqzQ

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http://www.clictab.com/RoyT/Roy_Thomson_Steel_Courses.htm

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

It could be argued that you're trying to do the impossible, since you have only one bar and are trying to do what the pedal steel is designed to do... to change the pitch of different strings simultaneously.

...you can do that using two lap steels. Record the one part, and then the other. Or get yourself a partner !

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The "pedal steel sound" that most people want is the E9th sound. I can emulate it pretty well (I think) with my 8 string E13:



F# _________10____________________________


G# __11--10_______________________________


E  ____________10_________________________


C# ________________11--10_______8--10_____


B  __12--10________________10_____________


G# ____________________________10--11_____


E  _______________________________________


D  _______________________________________

A lot of the classic pedal licks are there on the reverse slants.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

I put a E9th tuning on my ten string lap steel. I have worked up a pretty good version of " Another Bridge to Burn ". It is also very easy to get the Brumley lick for "Together again." I used Bryan Adams recording of Another Bridge to burn for a model.
I think it is a little easier for those of us who wandered in no mans land on the lap steel, trying to figure out how Bud Isiaac was getting that sound. Were those the good old days ? I don't think so..

Old Bud

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think that the C# string between the B and E is a "must have". Pedal players get that note so easily with a pedal. Putting some space between the E and B makes "F lever" slants a lot easier:



F# _____________________________________


G# _________________________________3--4


E  __3__5__7--8__7--7--5--3___3--3______


C# _____________________________________


B  __3__5__6--8__8--6--5--3_________3--5


G# ___________________________3--4______


E  _____________________________________


D  _____________________________________

Wayne Cox · From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.

"Behind-the-bar" string pulls and good slant-bar techniques are, of course,the best way to emulate pedal sounds but they require years of practice to do them accurately IMHO.
Another alternative is to learn one of the "close-interval" tunings such as Jerry Byrd's C-Diatonic tuning (EFGABCE) or my own B6/E13 tuning (DD#EF#G#BC#D#). When using Jerry's tuning on an 8-string steel, I recommend adding a "D" note on top or in front of the little "E". That opens a whole world of possibilities,such as Dominant 9ths two frets below.
~~W.C.~~

Dwayne Martineau · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Bobby, those examples are really great.

Any more examples like those ones would be super handy and appreciated.

Thanks,
Dwayne Martineau

Gary Anwyl · From: Palo Alto, CA

For those of you who have a G tuned lap steel, here's Bobby's second example for G tuning. The reverse-forward slant at the 16 fret is a little tricky in this tuning.

 


D _________________________________________________


B ___________________________________________12--13


G __12__14__16--17__16--16--14--12___12--12________


D __12__14__15--17__17--15--14--12___________12--14


B ___________________________________12--13________


G _________________________________________________

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Jerry Byrd played many a song.......giving the impression he was playing pedals when in fact he was merely "milking" the bar slant for all it's worth. He did this in a variety of different tunings as he was NOT attempting to imitate E9th or whatever, but merely providing the changing tone affect by simple bar manipulation. He's done this in C6th; C-Diatonic; and an assortment of E tunings. One has to listen quite closely to fully appreciate his technique in bar manipulation.

Ron Brennan · From: Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ

Ray,

Great post!!...I can hear it and totally agree with your notion about the bar slants and string pulls as well. TX
Rgsd,
Ron

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