FUZZ, etc ?

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

1. When using a fuzz, overdrive, distortion etc do you just peg the volume pedal to max? If i use the volume pedal when the fuzz is on I dont get consistent fuzz.

2. in the effects chain... its volume pedal first, then stompboxes , yes?

3. what's your preffered fuzz , overdrive or distortion for steel? but more importantly WHY?
I see alot of are you using the Blues Driver, and Tube Screamer which are overdrives..you are running these with tube amps?

thanks-

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Before the Volume pedal, like compressors.

I tried several before I found one tha didn't really affect the signal when off.

I found the Boss Turbo-Overdrive to fit that category and allow a full range of overdrive, from slight preamp type to full out fuzz.

Regardless of the claims, many boxes affect the tone when not active.

EJL

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

As Eric says, most boxes affect the sound when off - look for true bypass OR boutique (reead - expensive) pedals with buffered bypass where it's explained as such...those tend to not be "tone suck" pedals when off. Realize also 90% of the true bypass pedals will have loud "click" when you hit the switch - it's just the way the circuit works.

You can put a fuzz or overdrive before or after the volume pedal, but the sound will be dramatically different. You have to try both and change stompbox settings quite a bit depending on placement.

Generally, though, overdrive pedals want to be hit with the full output of the guitar, and will almost always work better in front of the volume pedal. The other trick with overdrives is that real overdrives (as opposed to fuzz or distortion units) DO NOT create a distorted tone - they push the front end of the amp into "overdrive", hopefully kickin gin even-order harmonics in a mooth way. Your amp HAS to be already driving hard and on the edge of distortion for an overdrive to work correctly; otherwise you have to turn the gain on the pedal up and force the pedal into distortion, which usually sounds bad. Real bad. For most steelers, overdrives are the wrong choice, because almost every steeler uses "too much amp".

FWIW I played a big jam yesterday with a full band, 3 guitar players, vocals, etc. - and my steel was running through a 40-watt Fender Vibroverb turned up to 5. Anything more and I was burying the guitars. I could have gotten away with a Deluxe Reverb easily. Anyway, the amp was not driving hard enough for an overdrive to work right, and any steeler using a 200-watt SS amp might as well forget overdrive...

As far as distortion or fuzz, they work the same way but with different sounds - distortion sounds like what it says - an amp turned up all the way with transformer saturation and speaker breakup. Fuzz, on the other hand, creates a sqare or sawtooth wave sound, like a buzzing bee...more of a violin or cello-like sound.

Both can go before or after the volume pedal. I like using overdrive AND distortion, and I'll run distortion before the pedal and overdrive after - I like the varied drive the volume pedal gives when it's in front of the overdrive pedal. If you want one drive level, put it in front of the volume pedal.

As far as preferences, for OD's that break things up a bit I like the out-of-business Way Huge Green Rhino best, but as I use OD's more for boost to breakup the amp itself the Klon Centaur or ZVex SHO (or Super-Duper) are what I use most. Tube Screamers and Blues Drivers sound bland to me and the TS's have a huge mid-hump I don't like. Bang-for-the-buck would be a ZVex SHO into a hard-driven tube amp.

For fuzz, my favorite is a clone of the old Fender Blender built by SoCal builder Brian Friend, who makes one that combines with an Electroharmonix Power Booster circuit - nice, nasty buzzsaw tone with a hint of an octave ot it like the revered Tychobrahe Octavia. Secons choice is a cheap used Ibanez FZ-5 Soundtank fuzz - discontinued and found on eBay for twenty bucks or so. IT works really well, surprisingly.

For distortion I use the BJF Dyna Red or an old MXR Distortion+. Both sound great with steel.

Last note - for almost ANY of these boxes to work well with steel, you need an impedance matcher FIRST in the circuit - either a Matchbox, Steeldriver II (my choice) or something else. Otherwise your hot steel pickup turns all the boxes into raspy, inarticulate mush.

Hope that helps -

Jim
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

For an overdrive that sounds great in front of a completely clean amp (no matter whether SS or tube), look at the Award-Session JD10 (it was sold as Morley JD10 for a while); this is one of the very few pedals I have tried, that doesn't have to rely on pushing a tube amp over the edge, and it is also one of the few that will give you convincing low gain "tube-amp-on-the-edge-of breakup" sounds - lots of pedals will give you great lead tones, full-on crunch, high-gain tones, but very few can simulate that magic zone between clean and overdriven - the JD10 can; its sound is kinda Fender Tweed-ish; it can do high gain stuff, too, but tends to get mushy; and it has a full set of tone controls, and will help you make a single-coil equipped Tele or Strat (or steel) sound much fatter.
Here's a link:

http://www.award-session.com/jd10.html

David Doggett · Posted 1 Apr 2007 5:43 pm

Simply put, before the volume pedal makes the box's effect touch sensitive, after the volume pedal makes the box's effect volume pedal sensitive. For distortion/overdrive/fuzz, I usually want the former rather than the latter.

I took Dan Tyack's advice and tried a Seymour Duncan Twin Tube distortion box. It is expensive for a stomp box, because it is really a type of tube preamp. It is by far the best distortion box sound I have ever heard for pedal steel. I run it in front of my volume pedal, so that the level of distortion is sensitive to my picking strength (so called touch sensitive). My volume pedal then has no effect on the amount of distortion, but only affects the volume level and in so doing adds sustain. This box does not sound like pure preamp overdrive to me, but also adds some of the character of power tube overdrive. I don't know how it does that, but having two tubes may have something to do with it.

I use the SDTT with clean tube amps (Pro Reverb, Dual Showman Reverg, Super Twin Reverb). This gives me both a clean tube sound and an overdriven tube sound. For smaller, quieter venues, I use it with a Peavey Delta Blues. The SDTT distortion sounds much better than the DB's own overdriven distortion. The SDTT has a rhythm channel and a lead channel. The rhythm channel seems to work better for the kind of blues and blues-rock I play on pedal steel. The lead channel is a little to much, and gets muddy quick.

I also have a Voodoo lab Sparkle Drive. This allows you to blend a clean signal and distorted signal. But it seems very difficult to get just the right combination in each different venue.

I would like to find a fuzz that gives something like the ratty sound of a baritone sax. Anybody know one?

David Doggett · Posted 1 Apr 2007 5:48 pm

Jim S., you often mention that hot steel pickups overdrive preamps. Maybe that's one reason tube guitar amps typically are too over the top in terms of distortion for pedal steel. But, wouldn't the volume pedal most steelers use attenuate the signal going to the amp? We mostly attack notes with the pedal backed off half-way or further. Seems like that drastically attenuates the pickup signal be fore it hits the amp.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Thanks for the suggestions and advice. I put the volume pedal after the fuzz and got the consistent fuzz I wanted. I'd like to own some nicer boutique pedals but dont have the money for em and since its rare that you can try before you buy, I just havent bothered. The "country" fuzz I built actually sounded pretty good, troo bypass Smile

I'll try the Boss tonight. I also have a tubescreamer and a mod kit for it I need to get around to installing. (These diy kits and mods are moronicly simple, if i can do it anyone can)

so a delay pedal would go AFTER the volume pedal?

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Most of the time you would put the delay after the volume pedal: if you place the vol ped. after the delay, and you shut down the volume, the repeats coming fom the delay will also be cut off; if the vol. pedal is placed before the delay, and you turn it down, the repeats from the delay will decay in a more natural sounding way; same thing with a reverb pedal.

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

I am a fuzz fanatic, have been for 25 years or so. My favorite back then, as now, is the Foxx Tone Machine. There are clones out there that can be had for less dough but the reissue is amazing- and $200. If you want to cut wood with a square wave, this one is it.

Jonathan Shacklock · From: London, UK

A little trivia to add to Keith's post: the Foxx Tone Machine was rebranded by Emmons for a while in the seventies and marketed as a steel fuzz. Both versions had an octave switch for a wild robotic Hendrixy effect! Danelectro do a VERY cheap ugly clone called French Toast that gets you near for mere pennies (interestingly the founder of Danelectro was the inventor of the Foxx pedal) but the Foxx reissue is admittedly fatter (and furrier!).

A lot of steelers like the Jordan Boss Tone, again rebranded for steel, that time by Gretsch as the Sho~Sound Boss Tone. The little black box plugs directly into the guitar (no cable). They became quite popular in steel circles for producing a string effect in conjunction with a lot of reverb and a little trick using beating unison strings for a cello sound (search the old forum for tips). They're increasingly hard to get hold of but give a nice gritty, vintage fuzz. Voodoo Lab do a cool Boss Tone clone (stomp box version) called the Superfuzz which is a little bit creamier and has additional tone and resonance controls plus true bypass.

According to a guitar mag I read yesterday Red Rhodes invented the first ever fuzz box (the one the Ventures used) so there's quite a little history with steel guitarists and Fuzz! Cool

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

I also like the Jordan, etc. Bosstone. they are notoriously unreliable though, and the Foxx has a great bottom end to it that just kills me. The original Foxx pedals are going for upwards of $400 but the reissues are just as good, maybe a little more consistent. Also worth mentioning is the Tycobrahe Octavia, which has been reissued by Chicago Iron.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

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