the price of studio monitors

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

since I am setting up a home recording studio(why all the headache is another story Wink

)I am looking at monitors.
I am confounded at why they are so expensive. what makes them so dear?
the 6.5"s are very pricey.and the 4"s may be too tiny.
I have been scouring ebay; they are not inexpensive there as well.

would a 4" be sufficient?
5" seems better. and of course bigger is better?

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Here is a pair of small, very affordable, audiophile speakers that would make very nice nearfield studio monitors. I have a pair in my livingroom stereo setup. I had some real good speakers there, but you know the way kids sometimes crank the music. These are really quite good sounding, and super affordable.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ATASB1%2E2

Brad

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

hey Brad. thankyou for the response. those are in the ball park. and at 5"s too boot.
never heard of the Athena brand.
perhaps it is like alot of electronics. one manufacturer and many names suited for different locales.

Brad, these appear to be home theater speakers.
and it does not mention if they are active or passive.
I want active and near field.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Randy, I have a pair of KRK Rokit 5's that do a very good job for me. They were under $300 at GC, and even came with carrying bags, which of course I'll probably never use. JP
_________________
Carter,PV,Fender

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

Jim. yup GC has those...they are nice and very popular. at 149$ per speaker they are too spendy.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Randy, you can deal about $50 worth on those speakers at GC, if that would help. JP
(added) The KRKs are powered speakers.
_________________
Carter,PV,Fender

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Yea, you'll always pay more for powered monitors. Here's a surprisingly good sounding amplifier for nearfield and medium to low power situations. I've got one and it really does drive speakers to a decent level, especially for near field use.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-952

And here's the power supply that you'll need to power it:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-953

This little "class-T" Tripath chip based amplifier has created quite a stir out there. Lots of people, including myself, have made a few tweaks on the stock amp to make it even cleaner, but really it sounds pretty darn good right out of the box, considering the price. I used this amp to power one of my small studio rooms last year. I was driving a pair of Yamaha NS10's. There was even enough power there for our bassist to record direct and get good fat volume in the room. I was very surprised at how powerful the little tripath amp is. 15W per channel, I guess that's sort of like having a pair of Fender Princetons. Not a lot of power, but if you're close enough to the speakers, it should be plenty.

So for about $160 + s/h you can have the pair of Athena speakers and this Sonic Impact power amp w/ps. It's a good little nearfield studio monitor rig. You just need to add some speaker wires, and you're up and running.
_________________
Brad Sarno

'82 Emmons S-10 push/pull, Revelation Tube Preamp, Furlong SPLIT powered speaker cab, V8 Octal Tube Preamp, Ganz Straight Ahead power amp - JBL D130

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

Just out of curiosity, how would a set of headphones compare in price and sound quality to any of the low-end nearfield monitors?
_________________
Lynn Oliver

Scott Appleton · From: Ashland, Oregon

I picked up a used pair of Peavey studio self powered monitors for 200$ that hold up in mix as well as my very expensive mackie ones .. If you get a good mix from your monitors what difference does cost make ..
The peaveys are 6.5" very simple design not fancy room controll buttons or auto shut off and all that .. they sound great .. find some of those ..

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

gentlemen, thank you for the great ideas.
never thought of passive and amp. that widens the 'driving range'; using a golfing analogy.
I will be hitting the 'search' function shortly.!

when I began learning about studio monitors I read about the dmain differnce. home speakers or hi fi speakers have a bass boost built in to fill out the sound. studio recording monitors are made to produce accurate sounds that were recorded.
now if I were strict and really nit picky about sound I would never use hifi home speakers.

honestly, I do not think it matters that I have accurate replication. although I strive for quality and excellence in what I do, the reality is I am just another musician and not in the upper ranks of the pros.
and if I were I would not recording at home.

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

I found a pair of Behringer Ms 40s . the specs look good. 4.25" woofer. does size matter?
would 4.25 be effective for a small home studio?
small and intimate.

Scott Appleton · From: Ashland, Oregon

Beringer .. not in my opinion a quality company .. they go for cheap an a lot .. not good .. some folks like em but their stuff sounds souless to me .. harsh .. the small 4" KRK are actually not bad .. look for those Peavey's.

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

thanks Scott.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

David Doggett · Posted 3 Apr 2007 9:50 am

Well, as a practical matter, since most people buying and listening to the product will be doing so on home stereo speakers or car speakers, maybe you are better off listening the same way. Who really cares if a handfull of audiophiles with truly flat full-spectrum speakers will hear something a little different than you and the vast majority of listeners hear?

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

DD, the problem is there are so many DIFFERENT home speakers,
so that if your's are one side of accurate,
say bassy,
many people's will also be trebelly.
So they hear almost no bass and a ton of bright.

If you mix with overly bassy speakers,
you then UNDER MIX the bass,
so it goes out too trebely or at least weak in the bass.

The inverse is true for trebely speakers as monitors.

When it comes to reference monitors for recording,
the less deviation the better,
Your environment will be working against you as it is,
it's best that your monitors ALSO are not doing that too.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

I agree with DLD... and I'd add from my own experience, that once you buy the best you can afford, stick with them long enough to know how they translate a mix. If you change monitors every couple of weeks, you never really learn when a mix is right, because it becomes a moving target.

I'm not talking about switching in a set of alternate speakers for a check on how the mix is sounding on a HiFi speaker, or burning a CD for a quick listen in the car (a really good idea IMO), but rather having ONE baseline that you know and trust.

Randy Cordle · From: Illinois, USA

Hi, Randy.
This may be sacrilege, but check out my garage mini-studio approach.

http://www.angelfire.com/music2/construct/pageMR8.html

I offer it only as an alternative if cost is really a significant factor for you. I've got a pair of 8" Event 20/20 passives at my computer where I mix, but don't overlook simple. I love wheeling this thing around in my garage and doing some quick and dirty recording when inspiration hits. You can pick up a mini-fi for next to nothing at tag sales, and not much more new. It must be equipped with an aux. input, but many are, as people use them with MP3 players.
_________________
www.Bluestemstrings.com

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

And once you get a speaker placement in the room
that gives mixes that 'travel well'
DON'T change it,

that's the sweet spot for your ROOM acoustics.

Or as in most cases the less sour spot.

The only reason to have monitors that are quite inaccurate
is when that inaccuracy counter-acts
a very bad ENVIRONMENT.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Bob Martin · From: Madison Tn

Hi Randy, you have been given so much good advice that you should be good and confused by now. Let me very humbly just add these few paragraphs of my opinion.

As long as you know what your speakers sound like compared to the real world listening environment it absolutely does not matter what speakers you use.

If you buy a set of 10k dollar speakers or 100.00 dollar speakers as long as you learn to mix on them who cares.

I have went thru probably 40 different pairs of "mixing speakers" in the last 30 years. Guess what on each and every pair of those speakers I had to listen to my mix on my car stereo my home stereo unit (cheap) my neighbors audiophile home 10k stereo setup, my 150.00 boom box and lastly but for sure not leastly a 25.00 set of radio shack speakers hooked up in mono with a very small power source trying to emulate AM radio sound.

I'll bet you're savvy enough to get my drift get what you can afford the higher quality usually the better but we all have to live within our means. So if that means a set of powered 4.5" near field speakers by all means don't be afraid nor ashamed of them.

If the studios all over the world could mix masters on those stinking Yamaha NS-10's well then pardner it just shows you that if you know what your speakers represent in the real world then use them and have fun.

I'll grant you it's not a lot of fun for the few months to make 35 different mixes and go around everywhere playing those mixes in every system you can but sooner than later you will get your speakers tuned into what you need to do so that your mixes will sound good out there in the so called real world.

One little caveat these last few paragraphs are just my experience and I am in no way an expert. I'm just another recording junkie trying to mix good music. Some of my mixes are great and some well I have to remix them Smile

So take my advice for what it's worth it free Smile

by all means have fun or stop immediately and start drinking because if it's work for you you're in the wrong hobby or profession LOL! Have fun Randy!

Bob

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

In principle I agree with Bob M.
I think Bill Terry got to the point a bit faster.

No matter what monitors you get, you will have
to listen through many alternate systems
until the mixes translate consistently
to the outside world.

The one reason to change monitors is if you get
a 'perfect mix' in the studio,
but then it NEVER sounds good out of it...

So; if it's always too bassy outside
Then your speakers and/or room placement of them are too weak in the bass, so you compensate in the mix. Voila very bassy mixes.

Try moving the speakers relative to the walls, tables, corners etc.
If you CAN'T find a good spot,
that's a good sign the monitors are wrong
for the room.

If it is always muted and un-bright in the 'real world',
then your speakers are likely too strong in the high end,
(or very weak in the bass end too)
and you mix to a nice brightness,
but it is too weak outside.

So it is room placement again and/or lowering
the high end output on the speaker if it does that.

The room is a big component of your mix,
but if the monitors are pretty accurate,
then you have a shot to learn the room problems.

Most bad recordings are the interaction of a poor monitor choice for the room they are used in.

And yes decades of fine MIXES
were finalized listening on Yamaha NS-10s
but usually recorded using a wider range speaker.
And not on the NS-10s until the last stage of the mix.
It needs to work with BOTH not just the one.

All the above from all posters doesn't mean
break the bank to get speakers.

But it does mean get the best you can
and learn them in their environment.

$10k actually doesn't guaruntee you get
the right speakers for the room.
$300 can do it, but it all depends on the room.

I have mixed for 7 years on my Genelecs and matched sub-woofer,
But change the room, as I have recently done,
and it's an whole other cycle of learning the too small room.
All small rooms are an acoustics problem
and each small room a DIFFERENT problem.

So I am now building a room that takes the room
as much out of the equation as possible.
But this is barely practical for me,
let alone the average home recorder.

So that leaves the choice of monitors
and their placement to give you the
best chance to get
a good mix that travels well.
And best of luck on that... Smile

_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

great replies. I dig. I am savy.
does that portable recording unit come with a black lab? I really need a dog right now.

room ambience is important. I had discovered that a while ago. I have played my guitar in may places.
from my parents bathroom with a cheap acoustic to a gin soaked bar in boonie town to a jam studio covered in carpet.
the place IS important to be aware of as each has a character to be mined.

presently, I play and jam with friends in my dinning room. the acoustics are incredible.
no more dinning room table. who needs one, I am single.
in fact. since the divorce I've thought of changing over the house to my complete playroom.

I am looking at passive monitors and simple power amps now.
I have been pouring over literature on the web and in libraries.
it all can be overwhelming and anal.
my approach to anything has been...acquire some knowledge and let it fly; paying attention along the way.

and have fun.which I do.
as I have mentioned to others...I am taking baby steps and grasping things as they crop up. with each success I get closer to where I want to be.
one small success is like adrenelin.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

My personal recommendation is to have one good pair, not expensive necessarily, but at least pretty good and hi-fi. Then also have a jambox, or at least some small and intentionally crappy speakers too. Going between good and crappy speakers with your mixes can be invaluable. This can help you get mixes that are nearly "travel ready" before you have to go out to the car to listen. Crappy speakers will tell you right away if that low-mid, cloudy region is too much. Good speakers will let you sometimes have too much of that stuff because it may sound ok thru them. Little crappy speakers often bloat out, fart, or get ugly more quickly. I found a Sony jambox at a garage sale for $10. It's got these little ported 4" speakers in it. The jambox also has a convenient "line-in" jack so it's an easy hookup. This crappy jambox combined with my far more expensive Dunlavy studio monitors has been invaluable in my mastering work. The best $10 I ever spent on audio gear.

And like many of us are saying. It's critical that you become very, very familiar with whatever speakers you settle with. Eventually you will know them, and they will become useful and accurate windows into your mixes so that you'll know that what you think you're hearing is really what you're hearing. Translation to the outer world is the key. You want your mixes to make sense thru any system they may eventually get played thru.

Brad

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

What Brad says.

My next room is coming with
a black and brown ROTWEILLER! Smile

_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Randy Reeves · From: LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA

I read in Vintage Guitar a wonderful article about our dear Buck Owens. he had a great approach to recording.
back when they began recording there was only AM radio.

in the studio they had car speakers on the console. he would punch up the recording in mono to get an idea what it sounded like on the air.
with more emphasis on the highs and cutting back on the bass the result was a cleaner sound (too much bass rumbled the car speaker).
his records sounded better on the radio than anyone else's .

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