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Topic: Why No Guitar Kits? |
Jerry Malvern
From:
Menifee, California, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 12:04 pm |
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| I have noticed here lately guitar manufacturers making "lower priced pro models" and just wondering why there isn't anyone ( at least I know of ) offering their guitars as kits. With a lot of guys here able to take guitars apart and reassemble it blindfolded, seems somebody would sell a kit. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 12:50 pm
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It's a lot of work to make up a kit, provide all necessary instructions, and then support the customer when he can't find something or do something. Most complex products offered in kit form are a lot more hassle for the manufacturer than they're worth. A computer desk (with a couple dozen parts) is a whole different animal than a pedal steel (with several hundred parts) that must not only be assembled, but also properly adjusted, to make it work right. In short, for quality to be there, it has to be not only in the parts, but in the assembly of those parts, too.
The best guitar, assembled improperly, can be the worst guitar. If you were a reputable manufacturer, would you want your name on the front of it? |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 1:08 pm
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I think kits would work. It could turn into a side biz for those folks who could put them together for those who could not do it.
Heck of a lot easier for a manuf to cut out parts, put them in a box and just send them off. I would like to see them on the market. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 1:56 pm
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because after we get them they would be missing parts.
And then the Instructions would be wrong..
and then some parts would not fit.
Ok, sure this is in fun..
I have been a scale Car Modeler for years, although not the past few years. There is almost no way possible on earth to make a BOX Stock Car model( AMT, Revell etc..) look like the one on the BOX after assy until you have actually been doing it for about half a lifetime.
I am thinking that kits in general fall into this same catagory. the average guy or gal will NOT be able to assemble it, the NON average mechanical type will, even without all the parts !
tp |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 2:00 pm
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| Carvin did offer kit Pedal Steel's years ago. Don't think it really was a "big hit". |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 2:41 pm
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Get me all the dimensions and I'll put my CNC machine to work this summer.
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 2:55 pm Kit guitars
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| A lot of S-10 Push pulls that are floating around are old Emmons kit guitars. The ones that are set up correctly are as good as anything that came out of the factory. (and that is good) |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 3:02 pm
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| Kits? Thats a great way to go out of business fast. Pedal steel guitars aren't pretzels. They are very complex interactive machines. You would have every yahoo who bought a kit calling you up 24 hours a day complaining that their guitar didn't work right and asking for a refund. There is no way out of it. Either spend the money and buy a custom instrument that the builder will stand behind or don't. This is not a cheap under taking to play pedal steel. |
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 3:05 pm
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On a modern steel, assembly time is not a major cost, and thats about all you would save on a kit. An experienced assembler like Johnny Cox, can probably put a basic one together in a half day or less. The major cost is in machining the parts, metal finishing, and building and finishing the cabinet. When I got my MSA's they were adjusted and ready to play right out of the box.
_________________
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 4:06 pm
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There are cars that come in kits, airplanes, Ak47 rifles, guitars, basses, harpsichords.....
I think that a good quality steel guitar kit would sell. Steel guitar players are known for their mechanical abilities. Look at the many early versions of hand/home made instruments that show up on Ebay. This has always been done.
Now having said all that, I am at a loss to say what the expense of making all the parts and tossing them in a box would cost and what a kit could sell for and be profitable for the maker and economical enough for the end user. |
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Gil Berry
From:
Westminster, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 4:28 pm
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| Don't know. Heathkit put out various electronic project kits for years. The majority of those kits went together perfectly and if the builder had any skill whatsoever, the end result was something both the assembler and Heath could be proud of. Of course, the assembly details were very much in depth so the only real test was how well you could read instructions. All that said, Heath is no longer in the kit selling business. Neither is EICO or Knight...(as far as I know, anyway), so maybe there was not enough return on investment to support the business? Sure would be fun to try to put together a guitar from a kit, though. Come to think of it, it's pretty common stuff with regular solid body strat, les paul, or tele type guitars.... |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 4:32 pm Emmons Kits ????
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| Quote: |
| A lot of S-10 Push pulls that are floating around are old Emmons kit guitars. |
I didn't know Emmons had Push Pull Kits, back when.
Can someone tell me more about them?
A remember Heathkit amps, test gear, and Ham Radios.
As I recall the kits cost more than similar assembled gear. |
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Jerry Malvern
From:
Menifee, California, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 4:44 pm
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| Bill. I feel the same way. Most guys have the required tools. I dont think manufacturers have any worries about ruining their name, as they cant stop owners of the guitars they (the manufacturer) assembled from turning it over and making adjustments. And if kits were available, I'd bet a lot of guys would "add to their collection". That would be good for the manufacturers. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 10:21 am
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I would buy one,and a Helicopter kit.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Chuck Dennis
From:
Toledo,Iowa
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 10:40 am Heath kits
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Maybe a Kit PSG would be nice...If the instructions were as the Heath Kits were.Heathkits were very heavy duty,extremely easy to assemble and test following well written USA language manuals. I put together many kits from Heath,and I bet most of the Heath Kit stuff is still around and in good working order,I have several.
I made Transceievers/2kw amps,oscilloscope,and many other test kits for the repair bench.used a huge amount of solder! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 11:16 am
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FWIW, I see kit cars in the paper most every week. Someone thinks it's a piece of cake, and discovers (after many months) that it's too much work. The term "90% complete" makes you wonder why the guy never finished it. Truth be told, he probably did the easy stuff, and then hopes to pawn the (less than desirable) garage full of parts onto someone else.
Also, I built many a Knight Kit, Heath Kit, and Eico Kit back when I was young...everything from amps to O-scopes. It was great experience, but you saved very little over buying a ready-made piece of gear. Then, there was the inevitable circuit-tracing when the unit didn't work. At least with a factory-built amp, you know it worked (once). When you built them yourself, and it didn't work...was it a bad part? An error in the instructions? Or just a stupid assembly mistake? I could handle those types of things, but some people (who think they are quite the craftsmen) have ZERO patience and common sense.
Anyone who really wants to build a steel can buy parts, or junkers...and give it a go. |
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Jerry Malvern
From:
Menifee, California, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 1:23 pm
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| Any comparision to kit cars or even heath kits is simply way off base. So is comparing a kit to fixing up a junker. I would venture to say a vast majority of steel players have given thought to making their own steel and a kit would make that possible. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 1:56 pm
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I have to join ranks with the naysayers on this one.
It would be a monstrous headache for the companies that marketed the kits... IMHO, they would be deluged with "I want my money back".. no doubt in my mind...
maybe,MAYBE an ultra simple E9 S 10 with 3+2, thats all pre drilled and VERY simple and of nice quality might work, but a pro level steel???. no way...
The good wood, well made parts, good electronics, etc which are needed for a good steel, prclude a "cheap" steel.. leave this one to the builders,... If you need "good" AND "cheap", buy a nice used pro model and be done with it... bob |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 2:26 pm
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I can see it now.
Instruction Manual for my kit...
Assembly Tools Required:
Rohm & Haas Workcenter
Okuma 44L CNC Lathe with auxiliary axis
Niagara 2500 Ton Open Back Inclined Press
Cincinatti Grinder
Devlieg Jig Boring Machine
Hardinge 10" Super Precision Toolroom Lathe
Lincoln 110/225 Welding Machine
oh, and also...
Screwdriver
Pliers
Bandaids...
Last edited by Ray Minich on 27 Mar 2007 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Malvern
From:
Menifee, California, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 2:39 pm
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| Bob, you raise a good point about keeping it simple, and good, detailed instructions will insure success. Oh, I'm sure there will be a few requesting a refund, and they are the same ones that bitch because it did not come with screw driver lessons. |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 3:34 pm
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Joey, I remember reading that Jay Dee had a Push/Pull that he assembled from parts - kind of like a kit.
I think that it would be a lot of work for any builder that decided to undertake it, and the support headaches would be a real concern. Probably more work and trouble than the sales could ever justify. The market is tiny. |
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Gil Berry
From:
Westminster, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 3:48 pm
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| Ray, unless the kit consisted of a swamp ash log, a bucket of iron ore, likewise one of copper ore (for the pickups, of course) and a bucket of crude oil (you'd need to refine that to get the lacquer) I hardly think a mill, lathe, or surface grinder would be required. The kit sould consist of all parts pre-made (pre-polished an option), all milling and drilling already done. The building would consist of assembly and setup with maybe the woodwork to be made from print. I could handle that as could most guys. But cost effective? Probably take more man hours fixing problems than the assembly and setup itself. Still, would be fun.... |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 3:57 pm
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Gil, you figured out my kit contents exactly  |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 4:06 pm
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| I don't think it would be wise to assume that Steel players are all Mechanically savy... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 27 Mar 2007 4:16 pm
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| Jerry Malvern wrote: |
| Any comparision to kit cars or even heath kits is simply way off base...I would venture to say a vast majority of steel players have given thought to making their own steel and a kit would make that possible. |
Well Jerry, truth is, there have been pedal steel kits available in the past (at least 3 that I know of). But in each case, the product was dropped after only a couple of years. Had it been popular or profitable, they'd have been successful, and still be around.
The Heathkit Company, on the other hand, remained in business for over 50 years. So I guess you're right...there really is no comparison!  |
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