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Topic: Why is it , we're never happy with our tone? |
Todd Kapeghian
From:
Vestal, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:01 am |
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What is it about us steel players or steel guitars that were always lookin for "that" sound? I play guitar and bass,too. I plug in , I play , I'm pretty happy with the sound, as are "most" guitar & bass players I've played with. But steel....  |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:11 am
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Todd, why don't you start the discussion by answering your own question? When you just plug your steel in and start playing, are you happy with your tone? If you are, the discussion is over. If you aren't, then why not? What's wrong with it, and what would make it better? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm just curious about where you are coming from.
P.S.: Some guitar players I know are obsessed with tone. They have several guitars and amps and are always trading. They also have many effects pedals, and sometimes swap pickups. |
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Stephen Dorocke
From:
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:16 am
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"...we're never happy..."? I'm happy...  |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:19 am
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| as a newb i agree somewhat tough to dial in the tone and I think it because its kinda a wider sound spectrum than regualr guitar, also I think a steel pickup is a bit different than guitar pickups so maybe the response is different than what we as guitarists are used to. right now I am using a guitar amp with ten inch speakers because thats all I got...the highs are a bit brittle. Im looking for a mellower tone in a lightweight amp , preferably tube with a 15 inch speaker, cheap..haha...tall order I guess. |
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Todd Kapeghian
From:
Vestal, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:25 am
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Hey David, It just seems like most steel players are always searching for that amp, guitar,pickup,that will give them that sound. Where as most bass/guitar players I know of (me included) are no where near obsessed with
having to search for "that" tone. Is it just the nature of the instrument? I don't know.... |
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Dennis Schell
From:
Shingletown, Shasta county, Kalifornia
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:34 am Re: Why is it , we're never happy with our tone?
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| Todd Kapeghian wrote: |
| What is it about us steel players or steel guitars that were always lookin for "that" sound? I play guitar and bass,too. I plug in , I play , I'm pretty happy with the sound, as are "most" guitar & bass players I've played with. But steel.... |
Gee, I'm just the opposite. My steel is the one instrument that I DON'T feel the need to be constantly messin' with the tone. I just put all tone controls in the "middle" and I'm happy as a clam! (Gee, maybe I have a "perfect" guitar?!?) 
I guess that's what makes us "individuals" huh? 
Dennis
_________________
"Bucks Owin" |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:51 am
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I think that a lot of players are (secretly) just unhappy with their playing, but blame their "tone" for their unhappiness. I feel I can nail just about anybody's tone, but their playing? Well, that's a different story.
You can't "buy" tone (or "the sound"), you have to make it. If you could buy it, then there'd be about 5,000 players out there who sounded like "Big E.", or Curly Chalker, or Jerry Byrd, and we know that's not the case. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 8:03 am
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well i aint satisfied with my playing or tone, but I wouldnt say Im unhappy. More like happily striving to acheive better playing and better tone  |
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Brian LeBlanc
From:
Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 8:21 am Tone Problem...
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Tone Problem...
definately a Problem!
whenever I finish a so-low
people ask me if I'm Tone-deaf...
_________________
'Frenchy' LeBlanc...
ShoBud & Twins |
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David Ziegler
From:
Lancaster, Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 9:21 am
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| I would be happy with CONSISTENT tone(darn Hands)! |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 9:30 am
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| 1968 ZB Custom through a Webb 614-E. I'm as happy as I can be and will never switch. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 9:38 am
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I think "tone" - whatever that is - is something that a player of any instrument should always work to improve. To me, the fallacy is always thinking that some change in equipment is the answer. Sometimes different equipment helps, other times it's just a red herring, IMO. I agree with Donny that many times, the problem is between the seat and the steel.
But I also think electric guitar players, as a group, are way more apt to obsessively focus on equipment. The entire vintage and retro-new-vintage movement milks this to the nth degree. Hang around a vintage guitar show and hear how poorly some of the people with insanely valuable instruments play, where someone else will come along with a solid but inexpensive Peavey Generation and smoke. IMO, there isn't a real strong correlation between value of instrument and quality of playing. This is also prevalent with acoustic guitars, with players forking over many thousands to upgrade to Brazilian rosewood, Adirondack spruce, and so on. I've done it myself, having bought and sold guitars that I wish I had back because I thought something else would "do it better".
I do not go so far as to say that equipment doesn't matter. Having a good instrument, amp, and sometimes various effects are important to get a particular sound. The "right" equipment can make it easier to get a particular sound, and allow the player to focus on other aspects of playing. But if someone has first-class professional equipment and can't get a "good tone", the first place to look is inside. IMO, of course. |
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JERRY THURMOND
From:
sullivan mo u.s.a.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 9:53 am
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Everybody hears a little different, an tone will change from place to place, but for the most part I have been satisfied with my sound for a long time. I stopped looking for the perfect tone a long time ago.Jeff Newman once told me to stop talking about it, an play.
Jerry |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 9:56 am
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A couple of years ago I would have agreed with you,Now I have a tone that I don't even deserve,everytime I play my guitar I am amazed at how it has become part of me.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Jim Walker
From:
Headland, AL
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 10:07 am
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I'm quite happy with the sound I get out of my rig. I get compliments on my tone all the time and I've only been playing PSG 14 months.
JW
_________________
Show Pro D10, Session 400 |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 10:09 am
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Me thinks that there are probably as many different "tones" as there are different flowers...
I like tulips but I like dandelions too... |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 11:47 am
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I think reading the Forum one might think steelers obsess over tone more than they actually do. Compared with technique, fast licks, and putting soul into your music, tone is the aspect of playing most affected by equipment you can buy rather than stuff you have to get from practicing. And equipment and its effect on tone is something we can talk about here on the internet. But practice? You have to get off the computer and go do it - nothing to talk about there. Granted, a major part of tone comes from the hands, and from practicing. But there is still some part of it that comes from equipment you buy. It is much easier to discuss the equipment than how to improve tone with practice. Solid state amps really do sound different than tube amps; 12" speakers sound different than 15"; single coil pickups sound different from humbuckers; the winding of the pickup affects the tone; some makes of guitar have a unique sound, while others sound much alike; etc. And you can't try everything personally, so it is nice to get some input here on the Forum.
I don't know that steelers are more obsessed with tone than players of other instruments. Maybe the guitar players around you have the tone they want and don't worry about it. But a lot of guitar players carry on endlessly about guitars, pickups, amps, speakers, effects, etc. There's a huge industry built on this stuff. And you should hear some sax players go on about the tone of different instruments and mouthpieces. To some extent it is just part of being a musician.
Sure the top guys can sound good on any equipment. But somehow they mostly play on the very best stuff they can find. And they mostly don't stick with the same stuff their whole career. They keep experimenting and changeing gear just like the rest of us. |
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C. Christofferson
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 12:17 pm
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May i just add that your best tone is going to come from practice sessions devoted specifically to tone and nothing else. Theres hidden tricks or aspects to tone that like to reveal themselves only to those who really dig deep.
My site |
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Carroll Hale
From:
EastTexas, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 12:41 pm
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personally I think only those very talented players or those with superb ears are the only ones who can really hear or judge "tone" qualities...
I just wish I could play well enough that tone was my problem......I am only a beginner, so hopefully someday I will be a ble to play like you pros...then tone will be more important to me..
jmho...
ch |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 12:50 pm
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| The "tone" chase has been around for as long as instruments have been made, I would imagine. In our steel world, people are always comparing newer steels to the sound of an Emmons, ShoBud, Fender, and ZB and so on. In the beginning stages of becoming proficient on a steel, the thought was- "If I get an Emmons, I'll sound like Buddy sounds", " If I get a ShoBud, maybe I can sound like LLoyd. That thinking is all well and good and certainly food for thought, but, all too often it doesn't work out that way. I've gone to a few of Jeff Newman's seminars, and he always had a new toy or steel to play with. I can remember leaving and saying to myself- " maybe if I get that "whatever thing", I'll sound like that. Not a foolish thought, but, fruitless in the end. I could, and probably, would never play like him or Buddy or Lloyd, because I'm me and have my own style. Decent, professional equipment is a perogative, in order to sound professional. A cheap steel and a cheap amp ( one that's not voiced for steel ) will never sound that good. Yes, it will sound like a steel, but, it's not the sound that's being sought after. Some of us are happy and content with our "rigs", but, I think most are not. That's why there are companies making pickups, and various amps, volume pedals, and effects. I've gone through a couple of steels and amps and effects. I'm pretty happy right now, but, there is always the chance of hearing something that attracts my attention and I may go for it. Who knows for sure? In a way, we're all searching for the ultimate. I don't think the search never really ends. |
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C. Christofferson
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 12:58 pm
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Like many i have an array of thumbpicks and the difference between the best sounding one and the worst sounding one is Very different. The one that is filed down to be narrow at the bottom is much louder, fuller and pleasing tone then a couple of the wider ones. Just a thought, your results may vary.
I love my tone. msa student model / gorilla amp. |
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Tim Harr
From:
Dunlap, Illinois
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 2:34 pm
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I have a Carter with BL 705s, a Webb 6-14E and MY Right Hand...
That is a tone combination that works for me in a big way |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 3:03 pm Why are we not happy with Tone?
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I think it is because many of us practice alone, at home. In this setting I know I am hyper critical of everything I hear.
Rehearsing and playing with a good band, I love what I hear from my amp. (same settings)
This is kinda like an analogy for signal to noise. In a band situation, some of my noise (hum, poor intonation, crummy attack, dead strings......) is not noticed. I am playing louder than the noise.
I prove it to myself often. I record my practice sessions dry using rhythm tracks. (never good enough for me). Then I playback again with a little verb and delay. (Sounds pretty darn good!) |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 3:54 pm
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We're too close to our amps.
EJL |
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Michael Haselman
From:
St. Paul
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 3:57 pm
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The eternal quest. To me, the secret is finding the tone you can be happy with and staying wih it, because most of us are never 100% happy. The better equipment I've got over the years the better I've sounded, and the better you sound, the better you play...Guitarists are worse than us. The ones that drive me nuts are the ones with different gutar, amp, stombox, every week so that they never even get close to that happy medium.
_________________
Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff. |
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