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Topic: Some things you just can't teach |
Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 10:32 am |
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It seems that good playing has to do more with feeling than knowledge and skill. Maybe skill is the wrong word. But I think that when you master the aggressive attack of the strings, or playing subtle movement it comes from the heart within, and no one can teach you that. I've heard a lot of very simple music played so sweet it could make a dentist smile.  That's what I'm trying to focus on now. But that doesn't make the job easier, just more satisfiying. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 10:59 am
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Some things just have to be found...
I would be embarrassed sometimes to play in front of another steeler, when I have to go look at A&B to find them 'cause I lost my place with my left foot...
Well, just last night, whilst playing along with Larry Sasser's CD, I "discovered" what I'd been missing all along. That is, using my toes to feel where the darn pedals are under my shoe, as a feedback to where they gotta move to hit B&C, and then get back to A&B without the tell tale "looking under the guitar..........  "
No, ya cain't teach this stuff, it's just gotta be found... |
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C. Christofferson
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 11:04 am
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Fred, What you said points, to me at least, to a certain frame of mind that Is hard to put into words, but is one that ocaisionally can bring knowlege, skill, technique etc to a level where these dissappear as separate entities and Real playing emerges. I guess you could call it detachment; a sort of listening to what you are playing, not as the 'player' but as the 'listener' only. As the 'player' you are no longer there. As though you are just letting the steel play itself. For some reason this seems to smooth out the edges that sound like knowlege and technique and results in it sounding really from the heart. Ive only noticed this a couple of times but i believe it is something that Can be 'done', and perhaps more at will with practice.
My site |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 11:35 am
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Instructional material from other instruments often deals with some of the "head" parts of practice, mastery and performance. I think steel is so new that there hasn't been the same level of attention paid to this as with something like, say, classical violin. There's a book called "Violin Mastery" written in 1911 that's a collection of interviews with the great violinists and teachers of that era, you can read it free online at the Gutenburg Project:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/15535
The violin method books by other teachers like Carl Flesch go deep on this stuff too, and there are quite a few books on "music zen" like "Effortless Mastery" by Kenny Werner.
MSA founder and jazz steel master Reece Anderson has written a good deal about mental aspects, I just can't figure out what he's saying....
Reece's Writings |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 5:45 pm
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C.Christofferson-your post brings up some rare but important, thinking about steel playing. I have never been a Star,far from it, but I do like to think that I do some of those ideas you mentioned in your post. A very thoughtful Post....al.
(edited for spelling)
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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C. Christofferson
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 6:45 pm
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Al, thx for the kind words. I'm not sure by your wording that you might have me confused with someone else? Between the two of us, considering your music carreer, you are the only star here! best wishes.
My site
Last edited by C. Christofferson on 23 Mar 2007 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 7:05 pm
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deleted
Last edited by Mike Shefrin on 21 Jun 2007 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2007 8:45 pm Re: Some things you just can't teach
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| Fred Glave wrote: |
| It seems that good playing has to do more with feeling than knowledge and skill. Maybe skill is the wrong word. |
Sincerity is the key. Once you learn to fake that, you can be successful. |
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Mike Ester
From:
New Braunfels, Texas, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 6:04 am Re: Some things you just can't teach
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
| Fred Glave wrote: |
| It seems that good playing has to do more with feeling than knowledge and skill. Maybe skill is the wrong word. |
Sincerity is the key. Once you learn to fake that, you can be successful. |
Someone else has been watching House, M.D.  |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 7:12 am
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| Once the academic types decide that "creativity" was the result of connecting disparate influences and cramming parts of one genre into another, all of a sudden you had digeridoos showing up in pop music and Paul Simon, Sting & Phil Collins pursuing the "world beat" with all kind of wierd squeaky instruments. Besides a solid sense of rhythm, it seems to me that the main requirement to play with soul these days is a really, really good BLUES HAT - check out Dr. John, Dan Akroyd, K-Fed, any of those guys. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 7:45 am
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Mike Shefrin-Your post has a lot of good ideas for a musician to try to accomplish in his playing. Some people are as they say "
born with it", but it can be developed and finely honed as the years go by. I think that you know that as a musician yourself......al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 8:55 am
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| I would rather hear a guy playing three notes with "feeling" and soul at just the right place than a guy who can rip away a million notes a mile an hour without any thought or emotion behind |
What makes you think a "guy who can rip away" is not playing with emotion or soul? And what makes you think a guy playing just "three notes" is playing with any feeling? How can you tell?
IMO, virtually every musician plays with great "feeling" and soul (at least most of the time). The issue is the ability of that musician to be able to "communicate" that to the listener. Doing that requires a toolkit of techniques. Without that, all this great feeling will sound like out-ot-tune drivel.
_________________
www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeffsjazz.htm |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 9:17 am
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Jeff-You brought up a good point. I believe most musicians play with soul and feeling, otherwise they wouldn't be Real Musicians. Keep the faith...al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 9:27 am
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| All of this talk, on the forum, about how many notes you can play in a bar, or how many diminished, augmented, major 7th's, minor 7th"s, or knocked up 9th's, has nothing to do with playing with feeling. When you become "comfortable" with what you're playing and how you play it, that's when feeling starts to arrive. Feeling is an emotion, not an aquired trait. It comes from your psyche. You can be a player, who, has all the knowledge in the world about where to get all the notes or what pedal to push, that will not make you a player who has feeling. Being comfortable at your level will allow you to play with feeling. As you learn more techniques and grasp more knowledge your feelings will intertwine themselves with your playing.IMHO |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Scotia, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 10:08 am
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IMHO, being able to play with feeling (soul, expression, whatever you want to call it) must be preceded by hearing a "master" play and being deeply moved by it, having an altered-state mystical musical experience in the presence of a great player. That's the point when you understand what it is you should be aiming for in your own playing.
_________________
Everyone in the world has two jobs: 1) whatever they do for a living; and 2) music critic.
Last edited by Alan Kirk on 24 Mar 2007 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 10:09 am
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deleted
Last edited by Mike Shefrin on 21 Jun 2007 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 10:51 am
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| Quote: |
| he was so lost in his own playing that he just went right on riffing away at such a loud volume that he wasn't even aware that the song had ended! |
That's funny you mention this. I remember hearing a local steel player some time back who did the same thing, a song ended, and he kept playing tastelessly through it (he was playing questionably the whole set, all out of tune). My point is that, he was probably playing with a lot of feeling, but what he felt was "feeling" was perceived by me as being utterly tasteless poor playing. The REALLY funny part though is that, it was the last song of the set, and as he got up, a couple of patrons gave him a "GREAT PLAYING!!". So the moral of the story is ...
_________________
www.mightyfinemusic.com/jeffsjazz.htm |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 11:32 am
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deleted
Last edited by Mike Shefrin on 21 Jun 2007 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 1:46 pm
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One thing I think can't be taught is playing from the soul and heart,You could tab any song Jimmy Day ever played note for note ,but it would be hard to duplicate the feeling he put in it.The same could be said about Curly,Charlie Parker,Miles Davis,Earl Bostic etc.That's what make's them stand head and shoulders above the rest.
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Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2007 5:54 pm Re: Some things you just can't teach
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| Mike Ester wrote: |
| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
| Fred Glave wrote: |
| It seems that good playing has to do more with feeling than knowledge and skill. Maybe skill is the wrong word. |
Sincerity is the key. Once you learn to fake that, you can be successful. |
Someone else has been watching House, M.D. |
I don't know what House M.D. is, but it sounds like they are using George Burns's material (like me). |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 25 Mar 2007 4:12 am
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| You can teach and learn all, except musical intelligence, say talent |
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 3:00 am Soul and feel
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| I think you guys hare right on on this. I have begun to play at church. no these people keyboardist piano players etc, are excellent players and I am honored to sit with them However, song Like Blessed Assurance that are 9/8 timming in the hymnal sure are more soulful and meanigful to me when played in the more elegant 3/4. I wonde sometimes if these people realize you can divide the meter. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 6:05 am
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| Quote: |
Sincerity is the key. Once you learn to fake that, you can be successful.
Someone else has been watching House, M.D. |
Actually, that quote is one of the more intelligible things that Samuel Goldwyn said (about acting), and it goes back about 60 years. |
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Fred Glave
From:
McHenry, Illinois, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 6:59 am
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| I think everyone is saying that it is important to first have the talent. Then, you need to develop it, gain experience, technique, knowledge and confidence with the instrument. With that, I think one has to have the love of music in their heart to be able to communicate with it. Those players seem to have great mucical instinct. I also think they have to be humble, and respectful of other musicians. Otherwise, they'll be likely to be the guy who steps on toes and plays loudly through the vocals and over the other players parts, and keeps playing after the song is over. |
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Mark Edwards
From:
Weatherford,Texas, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2007 7:02 am
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One day while having a lesson with one of the greats, I'm sitting there playing away, while he is getting his steel set up, thinking I'm all that, and showing off thinking I'm sounding like Lloyd Green. Then just off the cuff, this great sits down and starts playing the tune I'm playing.
Of course I was blown away, his tone, sustain and all things that make a great palyer, great players came out of his steel.
I said how in the world are you getting all of that out of that guitar. Then he tells to get up from my guitar and sits down and gets pretty dang near the exact same tone, sustain, etc...These were his exact words. "it's about experience, it's about how you are projecting what you are feeling, it's about all the hours I have sit down and put behind a steel. His 30 years of playing vs. my three years of playing, is what it was about.
Today I know I don't sound like Lloyd, I sound like I have been playing three years, and within those three years I sound better than I did last year, and the year before that. All of the good stuff tone, sustain, etc... will come with time, experience and more years of playing. I was told when I first started playing that I would just have to jump out there and play. And play I did, and still do. I have made some major mistakes, but one thing all this has done for me was give me the confindence, to attempt to play better. I too used to get as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs, playing in front of someone else. I mean I would freeze up, and to some extent still do, but not near as bad as I used too.
I thank all those greats, that have had the patients of Job to sit there and teach me and then listen to me butcher it up one more time. I used to be in a hurry to learn, and I spent more time at my steel than with my family. I still spend three or more hours at the steel per day, but I have learned that I can't do this all in one day, month, year etc... which has taken a big monkey off my back. Today when I sit down behind my steel, I feel more relaxed, and I don't sweat the small stuff, I just learn from my mistakes and move on.
Am I a better player today? You bet, and thanks to the instructors, this forum, and many hours sitting behind my GFI I play with more feeling than I used too. Great topic. |
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