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Topic: Why no 3rd fret marker on lap steels? |
Jan Dunn
From:
Union, NJ USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2007 3:39 pm |
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Is it because of the early days of say a c6 tuning where an Eb wasn't considered all that important?
I'm weak on music theory so please be gentle in your explanation. |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Mar 2007 3:51 pm
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My Cruztone has a third fret marker.
_________________
Lynn Oliver
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Jan Dunn
From:
Union, NJ USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2007 3:58 pm
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| perhaps i should be more specific---why doesn't a Rick B6 have a 3rd fret marker. Wait I can narrow it down...a T Logo B6...In truth, I've seen a lot of older lapsteels without a 3rd fret marker. I suppose the new generation DOES include a 3rd fret marker. |
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Ron Victoria
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2007 5:24 pm Hey Jan, another joisey steeler
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Jan,
I didn't realize there was another player nearby. I thought I knew of all the garden state players. Sorry to threadjack.
Ron |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 12 Mar 2007 6:58 pm
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I always put a third fret marker on the ones I build, and on the fretboards I sell. I added one on a Vega I re-did last year, along with all new normal ones..some were missing. My T logo B7 has one at third, I put it there!! 
E flat is a good key to play in, but the rythm players may not like it much.
A few Hawaiian tunes were written in E flat;; Sweet Leilani, The One Rose, etc.
BILL |
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Mike D
From:
Phx, Az
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Posted 12 Mar 2007 9:07 pm
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We're supposed to be able to count to three. After that it get's more kunfuzing so we need the markers. 
_________________
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments. |
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Chuck Fisher
From:
Santa Cruz, California, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 13 Mar 2007 9:53 pm
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| I useta had one like that and the dadburn thing wouldnt play that tricky last cord in my country songz, so I gotted me a new Morrel, now I'm a perfessionell. |
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Jan Dunn
From:
Union, NJ USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 1:45 pm
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| Come on...One of you fonts of knowledge has to know the answer to this one. If not this forum, then where????? |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 1:52 pm
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I think Mike nailed it, Jan.
The early Ricky's were made with the pro player in mind, and most can count all the way to 5! |
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Gary Lynch
From:
Creston, California, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 2:34 pm
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| If I told you, I would have to kill you. |
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Danny Hammers
From:
Danny & Patricia of Floral City, Florida formerly of Fairdale KY.
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 2:45 pm
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I have 3 Lap Steels and they all have the 3rd fret marker.
Use a paper punch and make one with a little glue. LOL Have a great day
Danny
_________________
Gibson Console Grand D8 - Weenick DT-10 - Dynalap S8 - TriboTone Bars
Nashville 112s - Vegas 400
Member:
Life Member of R.O.P.E. (Reunion Of Professional Entertainers) , NTSGA, GaSGA, PSGA, ASGA, MSGC, LMSGC, OzarkSGA |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 3:33 pm
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I've worked on guitars with a stick-on third fret markers,mostly bakelites. I usually ask if they want a pearl marker put there, and change them all to pearl.
The pearl markers are easier to see.
Orininals are white plastic of some sort.
If it's a 30s bakelite, I wont change any or add any. |
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Jan Dunn
From:
Union, NJ USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 6:32 pm
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guys, guys, guys (and gals)... I can't buy the 'a pro can count to 3' explanation or non of today's strats and teles would have a third fret marker and your Zum,Carter,Emmons,Sho-Bud etc. wouldn't have one either.You're saying a lapsteel with a 3rd fret marker wasn't aimed at a pro market?.nah, you can't mean that...how about old fret 13? that one's missing too and 13 isn't all that easy to see in the heat of the moment. finally, why didn't the student models have the 3rd and 13th fret marker since they probably needed the extra help?
come on and put on those thinking caps. I can't believe this was all a big mistake or a put down on begining players.
by the way, white-out works, too. |
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John Bushouse
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 6:42 pm
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My 1936/37 National Electric Hawaiian has a third fret marker. National Hawaiian tricones do not, though, although a Bronson (made by Oahu) does.
Most acoustic guitars of the time did not have a third fret marker, so it was likely a carryover from acoustic instruments. |
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Mike Fried
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 10:17 pm
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Jan, I think you're looking for a cut-and-dried answer to a question that doesn't have one. Probably for "aesthetic" reasons, some builders preferred to use a third fret marker and some didn't - I think it's about that simple.
_________________
Visit my music page at http://facebook.com/drfried |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Mar 2007 11:06 pm
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I agree with Mike. It was likely for reasons of style, since you don't really need that marker to navigate. Perhaps the builder was familiar with another instrument that did not have the 3rd fret marker...
My Rayco resonator does not have a third fret marker, and I never noticed it until I saw this thread. My Martin D28 doesn't have that fret marker either.
What bugs me is the fact that guitars have a marker on the 9th and banjos have a marker on the 10th.
_________________
Lynn Oliver
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2007 10:25 am
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| Gary, tell him. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 16 Mar 2007 10:38 am
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Is that 13th fret thing a joke??
Can't say I've ever heard of it.
Rickenbacher may have saved a dime or two by leaving out the third fret marker. After all, they were production guitars.
They did stranger things, like their pick up arrangements on the consoles. |
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Jan Dunn
From:
Union, NJ USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2007 11:28 am
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| oops, i meant 15th fret (3+12=15 not 13----that's why I'm not a pro...or a math teacher) |
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Mike Fried
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2007 1:11 pm
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Lynn, yeah, mandos and ukes use a 10th fret marker too. Now that's an interesting phenom...
_________________
Visit my music page at http://facebook.com/drfried |
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DeWitt Scott
From:
St. Louis, Missouri, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Mar 2007 10:16 am
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| My Rickenbacker Frypan doesn't have a 3rd fret marker. I solved that problem by going to a office supply store and bought a sheet of black dots and I scratched it on with a pencil. I also had to do it on the 15th fret as it didn't have a fret marker either. The sheet has different size dots so I was able to match the size of the dots perfectly. And I have almost a full set of black dots left on the sheet should the ones I put on my guitar should ever begin to fade out. Scotty |
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Joseph M Adams
From:
Alameda CA
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Posted 17 Mar 2007 11:40 pm 10th fret position markers on mandos and banjos
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though I can't remember where I read it, the 10th fret marker on mandos and banjos [esp tenors banjos] relates to the tunings and different chord structures used for the most common keys-making the 10 fret a more important spot to hit while frailing away than the 9th is on a 6 string guitar in standard tuning. If you're a collector of wood and steel, it's good to know that any 6 string with a 10th fret marker is almost definitely from before 1920 when the guitar started to seriously displace the banjo from popular band music
I remain, your humble servant and cesspool of useless knowledge-
_________________
Bobby Wolfe Ported Reso, OMI Hound Dog, 47 National New Yorker, Supro Frankensteel, Phoenix Jazz Mandolin, John Knutsen Songbird Acoustic, 1840 Henry Schatz parlor guitar. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 18 Mar 2007 6:30 am
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Hey Jan, I'm glad you corrected the 13th fret marker math. I was ready to re-write the program for my fret boards
Joseph, next time I need to know something, you da man!!
With respect BILL |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Mar 2007 10:07 am
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On banjos, the basis for some of the more common fret marker layouts is the pattern of black and white keys on the piano: markers at 3,5,7 and 10,12. Additional markers were added to distinguish premium models, such as the first fret marker and the block "signature" marker at 21.
I'm not sure about the tuning theory, since reso and banjo both are most often tuned to open G.
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Lynn Oliver
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Dennis Schell
From:
Shingletown, Shasta county, Kalifornia
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Posted 18 Mar 2007 12:11 pm
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Gee, what about all the necked/stringed instruments without ANY position markers at all?!? (Oh man, now I'm getting a "stress attack" here.....  )
Dennis
_________________
"Bucks Owin" |
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