Advice on 1st steel setup.

Jeff Clark · From: Indiana, USA

I play guitar/lap steel in a band that sure could use a pedal steel. I have a twin reverb reissue and a morley volume pedal already. I assume these will be adequate.
My options seem to be either get a starter model or shell out a bunch of money for a pro model. I'm not opposed to getting a used guitar.Advice on would be appreciated.

Billy Wilson · From: El Cerrito, California, USA

Pro model for you as you are already a steel player.

Larry Jamieson · From: Walton, NY USA

Look for a good, used, pro model guitar. In less expensive guitars, some of the older MSA's and BMI's sell for around $1,000 and are good guitars. You also see newer name brands, like Carter single 10's for $1400 to $1600 used.
Be sure the guitar you buy is in good mechanical condition, and has at least 4 knee levers. Stick with the name brands. If you have any questions on a particular instrument, feel free to contact me, or talk with any working pedal steel player you know. Good luck finding a guitar, and enjoy the ride! Larry J.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Older MSA's--"and not reknowned for their tone."
So tone is now in the imagination?
Ignore the man behind the curtain, many players love the tone of their MSA's, this one included.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Charlie, no offense meant (what "imagination" did you mean?). Some people love them, but many have posted negative thoughts regarding the sound...and especially the weight. In my own experience, a D10 Classic weighed in at over 90 pounds, and had dull, lifeless tone. Compared to my lightweight GFI which is harmonically rich, it just seemed a flat sounding guitar. I was just offering another viewpoint.

In fact, regarding GFI's, their student models are highly regarded as near-pro quality instruments and priced at a decent level. Might be another consideration.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Welcome to this Great Forum Jeff
you'll get alot of good advice fer yer steel journey from the Fo'bros & gals

if yer already a steeler & consider that you're gonna stick to it,
then get a used (or new if you have the budge it)Pro model
4 or 5 levers & 3 or 4 pedals on single neck ( E9)
you won't lose on yer investement compared to a entry model

many good steels 4 sale here on the forum from 99.99% reliable folks including dealers

Duane Dunard, Billy Carr, Bobbe Seymour, Jim Palenscar, Daniel Cormier, & mo'

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Jeff is asking a question, can we not just answer it !

Jeff, the TWIN is awesome for Steel, one of the finest amps living and very common.

My take would be to get a good name brand Steel, Single Ten with perhaps 3 and 3 or 3 and 4, a Professional Steel, not a student Steel. IF it is a PRO Guitar it will serve you very well until you decide to upgrade or add another to your collection.

Before you make the actual purchase ask some questions right here and if there is a Steeler close by maybe ask him( her) to take a look for you.

IF you have the funds for a New Steel, go get a single ten 3+5, it will keep you busy for a few decades..

by the way 3+5 means 3 floor pedals and 5 knee levers in case you didn't realize that...

A PRO Guitar may cost you a few bucks but keepin mind that if you care for it , it will always be worth what you paid or very close to that. These Instruments on the Used Market hold value very well, as long as you buy smart...

Good luck

tp

www.tprior.com

Jeff Clark · From: Indiana, USA

Thanks for the input!
Is it be possible to get something worthwhile in the $1000 range?

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Hi Jeff, I think the general consensus will be that $1000 is probably right near the bottom of the PRO $$$ range..

There have been several MSA's floating around that price range which I beleive would be fine Steels.

Keep an eye on the FOR SALE Instruments section, every now and then one of them shows up, but they don't last long.

good luck
t

David Doggett · Posted 7 Mar 2007 1:59 pm

I think a good case could be made for a new Carter Starter or GFI student model for a first pedal steel, rather than a low priced used pro model. The new student model will have a standard setup and everything you need for getting started right out of the box. As far as listeners are concerned, it will sound just as good. If you learn to play it and stick with it, it will be easy to sell the student model and move up to a pro model later. The only people who will disparage it will be guitar snobs - who needs them.

Used pro models are a bit dicey, especially for a beginner. If you buy a used pro model from a dealer like Scotty's Music in St. Louis, or Bobbe Seymour in Nashville, or Jim Palenscar in California, then it will have been cleaned and adjusted and put in good working order. Also, if it is a non-standard setup, they will convert it to standard for you, and will even add a knee lever or two if it needs it to get to 3&4. But this will all cost substantially more than a new student model. If you can afford it, go for it.

Buying a used pro model from an owner is very dicey for a beginner, even here on the Forum, and especially on EBay. Even if there is nothing broken, things tend to be out of adjustment (meaning difficult to play), worn, beat up, and they often have non-standard setups. A veteran player and trader can whip one of these into shape. But that is a bad task for a beginner to get involved with. If you know a veteran who can help with the purchase, and can help adjust it and put a standard setup on it, then this might be okay. But I cringe to think of a beginner trying this alone, with no past reference to what a good pedal steel is supposed to work like.

Of course a standard setup on an obviously good condition used recent model common brand instrument would be great. But that will cost two or three times as much as a new student model or bargain old beater. If you can afford it, that is a very good route to go.

So my bottom line advice is to get a new student model, or a refurbished used pro model from a dealer. Save the bargain long-out-of-production "projects" for later, when you know what you are doing.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

A GFI would be lovely; great technology and design.
There's another option:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=104718
Bob Simmons builds good guitars and is a very helpful guy. If you call him, you can discuss additional levers etc; but for $695, his blue swirl econo is hard to beat.
I'd seriously consider it if I didn't have an MSA.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

As mentioned, a GFI student model would be a solid choice. IMO it's a much better instrument than the Starter.

One thing I just noticed - you mention a Morley volume pedal. To work with steel, it would have to be one of the low-profile models. The other issue is that the Morley's fulcrum point is OK for playing when standing, but to me it feels awkward sitting at a steel. I wouldn't suggest spending $200-300 on a specialized steel volume pedal (with special electronics, no pot, etc) right away, but you might look for a used pedal designed for steel use. They're usually around for under $100.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Gil Berry · From: Westminster, CA, USA

Hmmm...you said you already play a lap steel? Most of these guys are thinking E9th ("country" steel) but are you familiar with C6th on the lap? If you are, I suggest you go for a D10 or a universal. Don't waste any knowledge you've gleaned from playing lap. And my vote is for a professionally set up name-brand used steel. As good as new, a heck of a lot cheaper, and something you won't outgrow anytime soon.

David Doggett · Posted 8 Mar 2007 10:35 am

Bobbe Seymour's latest newsletter mentions that GFI is streamlining an S10 pro model with standard setup (customizable by owner) and limited color selection that will have a "street" price of under $1500. You can't get a used pro model that's better or less expensive than that.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Jeff,A few months ago I bought a used Dekley S-10 3+4 as a practice guitar and it was close to the thousand dollar mark.This guitar is a Pro model and I wouldn't trade it for anything,if you keep looking you can get a Pro guitar for around a grand...be patient,Stu
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

the carter starter is the cheapest made thing on the market, having had one i can speak from experence
buy anything EXCEPT a carter starter
like Roy Clarks old song : thank god and greyhound she's gone
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Calvin, with all due respect, you had a bad experience. There are countless players and owners who have had very positive experiences with the Starter. It's time to just state that you had a bad experience and move on. Many of us have had very bad experiences with very HI quality products.

I have seen several Starters and I would take issue that they are the cheapest things made, they are ideal for the market they are in which is brand new for around $700.

I have several students that come to the house for lessons that have Starters, they are perfect Instruments for what they are doing.

t

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

Tony
i bought a used Zum that was 25 times better than the carter and Paid $750.00 for it and sold it 2 years later for what i paid for it
and just for the record i'm not the only one that thinks the carter is junk but i am one of the most vocal about it
i would buy a cigar box with strings on it before i would buy another carter
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Russ Tkac · Posted 11 Mar 2007 6:21 pm

There is a used Mullen on the Carter site. It is a student but very close to a pro @ $995.00 3P +3K with a case. I've heard these are very nice.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Yep, there are several of us whose experience with the Carter Starter was positive. I understand there are those who wouldn't buy anything but a Carter.

Someday I'd like to go to Dallas to see all their other guitars. Bud Carter designed my MSA....
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Calvin, Apples to Apples please.

It would be way more civil to just state you owned an item and wasn't pleased with it. This thread alone has numerous folks offering a more positive view.

So far with your experience we have only heard 1/2 the story. Rarely will you find a vendor getting into it with the one or two that have been vocal.And thats the way a good business operates.

If I owned a Starter I would question your "JUNK" terminology, maybe even take offense to it,as I said earlier, I have played several, they are not JUNK in my view, they are NOT PRO Steels either, but thats not what they are intended to be.

1/2 the story never makes for a good book.....

Jerry Erickson · From: Atlanta,IL 61723

Hi Jeff, Where are you in Indiana? I work at Corson Music in Champaign,IL and we have a GFI student model 3 X 4 in stock, and we just took in a Sierra single 10 on trade that's set up 3 X 5(floor,knee). Stop in and try 'em out or give us a call.

Jerry

http://www.corsonmusic.com/CorsonsSteel.htm

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

ok Tony, lets get down to the nuts & bolts of it

(1) the knee levers were so flimsy that they would bend
(2) the knee levers had so much slop that it was almost imposable to learn to play (no ajustments)
(3) the return springs were much to weak
(4) the pick up is a joke
(5) the guitar is way to light
(6) the fret markers are the same color and almost the same size ( this would not be so much of a problem now But when a fella is just starting this is important)
the inability to get the guitar to fit the player
alone makes it a bad choice for beginers

in fairness it did stay in tune fairly well..except for the weak return springs
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Calvin, if they were as bad as you make them out to be there would be countless folks up here standing in line to post a bad comment .

No need to go any father here...

there are plenty here that give it a good rating for what it is and what it is intended for.

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