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Topic: mission impossible:getting started |
Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2007 1:03 pm |
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my PC was waiting. my instruments too. I am ready to record.
I decided to use Presonus Firebox; it came loaded with Cubase.
I have heard good things about both.
this morning was the first I had time to install everything. the CD went in and prompted me to plug in the Firebox. ah, here's the cord. one end goes hereand one end goes....
(waylon says it so well..)
wrong!
my PC does not have the proper connection. I have USB but no firewire sized plugins.
so off to the store and I picked up the right card. I open up the tower and I can see the card is not configured to fit the slot.
wrong!
so off to the store again returning everything. instead I pick up the Lexicon with the Cubase software inside. The Lexicon is all USB connection. cool.
home now and I install the CD. it prompts me to plug in the Lexicon. I do. then I am prompted to click for the Cubase install. I click yes,
then it asks for the serial number on the sticker of the CD sleeve. it's in my hand and I begin typing. click enter.
INVALID SERIAL NUMBER flashes.
I recheck and enter only to have the same result.
I call the store. they say to bring it back.
wrong!
I am going to hang myself with the included USB cord instead.
I guess I will never have a home recording studio. is there hope? can I say...
wrong? |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 5 Feb 2007 6:07 am
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Welcome to the world of computer recording--get used to it...
Never forget the "3 R's" of computer recording...Reflect, Repent, Reboot... |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 5 Feb 2007 6:14 am
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thank you John for the pearls.
this is a strange world.
I hope I like it. |
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Randy Beavers
From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
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Posted 5 Feb 2007 6:57 am
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Good one John. 
I want a sign with the "three R's" hanging over my computer screen. |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 5 Feb 2007 1:09 pm
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I contacted lexicon about the incorrect serial code. they sent a reply with the correct code.
now I can finish work, run home, and see if things work.
what'll it be ?
rant or rave?
a few more 'R's eh. |
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Pat O'Hearn
From:
Fairview, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 5 Feb 2007 7:19 pm
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Courage Randy! Its not a fair fight to be sure, as your up against a loose knit army of
software developers, design engineers and hardware manufacturers, all well intentioned
I imagine in their pursuit to offer us a better life through technology.
- although alcoholism and grief counseling is sometimes the outcome.
You’ll have it licked soon enough and be making music rather than hunting authorization codes,
and when this happens, string some razor wire around that PC, allowing only access to power switch
and drive bays, (lest ye be tempted to tinker)
and relish the fact that, by God, you’ve got at least 2 good years before going through all this again! |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2007 4:23 am
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LOL Pat. how ironic. Windows has released its newest version in a few years.
so the first degree of separation has begun. soon, my computer will be obsolete.
with this Lexicon product, which I havent hooked up yet because I have a need to type here  .
the user manual is actually legible. I can read the plain language they deigned to use.
so there is hope. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 26 Feb 2007 12:29 pm
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Hi Randy Reeves-I guess you are now doing better than I have been doing. Why is it, I go into the studio, play a take , good bye and that is it? why can't we do that with our own home studio? That is supposed to be the reason for all the recorders and sofware bing sold today. I wonder why they can't work like they are supposed to? I'll bet it is because they are computer nerds instead of Musicians.?...al
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2007 1:25 pm
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I know Al. I really having trouble driving that steep learning curve. I think, 'am I the only idiot on earth?'.
it is good to know that there are two kinds of nerds.
computer and musicain nerds.
I sent you a private email answering some more of our questions. |
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Kevin Chriss
From:
Carmel, IN, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2007 2:20 pm
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| If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. HA |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2007 2:35 pm
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Hang in there Randy .... It will get better, and then it will get worse, and then it will get better , and then it will get worse ...
There's no end to it all ...You will however be completely overwhelmed when you see how much your Cubase program , or any of the sequencer programs out there can do .... It's really pretty amazing .... There are great folks on this forum that can help you thru a lot of it , and there are forums out there just for Cubase ....You're not alone !!..... You'll get the hang of it after a while ....Good Luck ...Sincerely, Jim |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2007 6:16 am
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thanks for the pep talk James.
I have found the Steinburg/Cubase Forum. good stuff.
this is hilarious. over the snow bound weekend I took the moment to try and record. everything worked fine except me.
I was at 'a loss for words' so to speak. I froze in front of the mike and I could not think of anything to play.
stage fright fright?!?
LOL |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 28 Feb 2007 6:28 pm
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Randy-what is the Steinbuerg/Cubase progarm? does it work easlily? What is the cost? Thanks...al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Mar 2007 2:10 am
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Al has actually made a very fine statement here.
most of the folks who are proclaimed Engineer types have all the gear and are really into the learning curve and the techno end of the spectrum, they may also be fine Musicians but they are tecky's , maybe tecky's first ahead of being a musician.
We, as players, many of us jump into the recording thing, kind of like a second life, AFTER BEING A MUSICIAN, Musician first, tecky second.
Setting up a home PC recording system seems rather easy at first, but at the end of the day it's still just a Workstation, but it's in your PC. And you gotta deal with the learning curve, and wires, and other things that plug into the wall...
Playing Music and Recording Music..two different worlds. Unless of course you own Musicians Friend, then you put them both together in one catalog.
I still find it hard to look at the Steel neck and monitor level meters at the same time  |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 2:58 am
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| John Macy wrote: |
Welcome to the world of computer recording--get used to it...
Never forget the "3 R's" of computer recording...Reflect, Repent, Reboot... |
You forgot reconfigure!
Plus
Reconsider, recompense, reconoiter, wreck your brain.
I think for any serious work RAID is also mandatory.
Record deal is optional...
| Tony Prior wrote: |
| really into the learning curve and the techno end of the spectrum, they may also be fine Musicians but they are tecky's , maybe tecky's first ahead of being a musician. |
It always makes a technically savey musician sad
to hear words like this....
Doing the neccesary reading to be able to capture yours, and others,
musical performances, doesn't diminish the muscian.
It only adds a dimention to their usefulness.
I never want to be mixed live by a non-musician....
If you think;
the engineering will not accept incorrect application.
Then it becomes obvious you must get it right.
If you think,
This non-musician engineer is in the way between me and my music,
I best do it myself. Gee it must be RIGHT too... hmm, read some more.
It comes from a completely different analytical part of the brain.
But that doesn't in ANY WAY diminish that
musically creative part of the brain,
that prompted them to actualy learn this other stuff also.
I do engineering in support of the music I want to create,
and not the music to support the technical requierments...
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 9:20 am
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Dave-I would agree with you that a Musician would be a better recording engineer, IF he had the technical knowledge that the Engineer has, and if he had both smarts, like Harold Bradley, he would really be a most valuable person in the industry...al
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 10:33 am
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Thanks Al,
I will add that certain empathy
and psycological nurturing thing too.
Getting the most from the players
AND getting it right in the machines.
Randy I can FULLY empathise with your frustrations with getting it running.
we have all had this happen,
especially at those times technology marches 1 step back
while saying it is leaping forward.
This most often when platforms change,
you wait for the new version, get it fire it up...
oops try again fire it UP,
and then they have CHANGED stuff
and expect you to 'just get it'.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 11:03 am
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I think David missed my point..
I never implied being a tecky dimininished the Musicianship, I said that some are tecky's and they may enjoy being tecky's ahead of playing the music. Maybe they enjoy them both equally...but everyone is not in this catagory.
this not diminish anything, it's a fact of life.
Playing music and recording music ...
The two are not hand in hand and and are not inclusive.
It's just not as easy as going down to Guitar Center and coming home with the goods. Thats the easy part..
t
Last edited by Tony Prior on 3 Mar 2007 4:36 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 11:55 am
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interesting.
left brain /right brain.
I am terrible in math but excel with arts.
math is left brain. drawing is right brain.
for example.
my younger brother is a math genius. he asked me once if I had in mind the end product when I began painting. I said not really. but I know how to get there.
he was astonded. as a math tician he has thwe answer known, but has to find the way to get there.
he told me he could never work like I do, because I dont know what the end would be.
I am quite comfortable working that way. I know when I am there; the art work is finished. for my right brain, it is the journey. and many many times I have a happy accident where a spotch may give me a better idea; I then pursue that.
it is just the way it is.
I am slowly learning how to work computer recording.
my left brain was developed enough for me to keep my right hand and leg moving. I had been happy with that.
but now I feel more brain bumps cause of the tech process I have to use.
it does not come natural. so I pay more attention, take notes cuase it is easy to get lost.
but I am getting there. |
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Jon Moen
From:
Canada
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 3:29 pm
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Randy, How do you know when you are done with a painting or a song? I have read interviews of many musicians and for some of them the biggest problem is knowing when to stop tweaking. The other side of that is putting your product out there and regretting that you didn't change something and having to listen to it in that form forever.
I know exactly what you mean about being in front of the microphone and not finding something inspiring to record. Why is it when you are playing on auto-pilot you can play amazing stuff, then throw a microphone up and it all becomes business? Do the regular players/session guys just stay in their comfort zone all the time?
I have heard it said that all you have to do to be a competent musician is to make your worst playing good enough. I think there is more to it than that for recording. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 4:48 pm
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Jon, I think it's because when the RED record light is ON, we can't pretend we are playing well. Either we is or we isn't.
More often than not when we are playing in the groove, the recording gear is OFF..when the recording gear is on..WE are off..
Generally when I am working on a project, I complete the tracks and practice Steel over them for maybe a week or two. I record a few times to see whats up..and at some point it will flow so the Moon and the gear have to be aligned at that time, meaning the 16 tracker is ready to go...and I do practice thru the 16 tracker all the time anyway so it is always ready and waiting on me:(
By the way, the second button I learned on the 16 tracker was the DELETE button... |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 5:21 pm
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Tony-I like the point you made about the red light on.That sure rings a bell with me. When I was recording , I didn''t feel like I ever played my best. Always felt I could do a lot better.
With the red light one, I played it safe and didn't stretch out and play the way I wanted to do.....al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 3 Mar 2007 6:12 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
most of the folks who are proclaimed Engineer types have all the gear and are really into the learning curve and thetechno end of the spectrum, they may also be fine Musicians but they are tecky's , maybe tecky's first ahead of being a musician.
We, as players, many of us jump into the recording thing, kind
of like a second life, AFTER BEING A MUSICIAN, Musician first, tecky second.
....but at the end of the day it's still just a Workstation,
but it's in your PC. And you gotta deal with the learning curve, and wires...
Playing Music and Recording Music..two different worlds. Unless of course you own Musicians Friend, then you put them both together in one catalog.
I still find it hard to look at the Steel neck and monitor level meters at the same time |
Yeah, but from a bass guitar it's not so hard...
I've read a chart, played, and watched levels for basic tracking.
But you need not watch levels for the whole tune.
Tony, I think I read it correctly.
"Most of the folks..."
Maybe that's not what you were thinking, but it's what you said...
When I see a guy with 7 steels, 10 guitars
AND a working studio,
I think musician who didn't stop learning JUST music.
Oh and for the record I really DON'T enjoy dealing with tech issues,
It's just I am reasonably good at it.
And because no one else around, also musically savey, was.
It's a neccesary evil to getting the music done.
And the perception that technical savoire faire makes you
less of a musician, or too distracted to play your own parts right,
or worse contribute to the music in creation,
is VERY agravating.
He's a techy geek, and a bass player,
we know better about the music,
and that includes HIS bass part...
You would be surprised how prevalent this attitude is.
As to RED LIGHT ON!
' Tape IS Cruel.'
It will feed back to you EXACTLY what you just did.
This can REALLY throw a pickers ego into reverse,
especially if it's in the flush of the
first time in studio crash 'n' burn syndrome:
"What a great band we got,
I am playing killer right now,
this recording's gonna be great...!!!"
And then they all hear playback of take one... AAACCKKKK
we sound like... (insert word of your choice)
You can almost hear the egos sloshing around between your shoes...
Like yesterdays fishmarket ofal.
Suddenly they HEAR the reality, not the impression
they have gotten from live gigs, and drunken fans stroking them.
Tape is cruel, pulls no punches, and tells the cold hard truth.
After that, they QUICKLY improve their work for the session,
BUT there is usually a lack of the comfort zone, mentioned above,
and it may take years of sessions for some to ever be
without abject fear of that mic and that red light.
Heck I can still get a bit of that
and I have lived in studios for decades.
When to STOP.
Ah, totally subjective.
Depends on the style, some music IS more interesting
with many levels shoehorned in, and all working like clockwork.
I happen to love classic New Orleans / Dixiland jazz.
And sometimes 2 soloists are so fine on a track,
that I don't want to decide between them. So I let them dialog together.
Other styles demand clean and sparce as the way to go.
I have another studio catch phrase.
"Entering the land of diminishing returns."
2 meanings ;
1) The more you work the less quality you get out,
after a certain point of mind, body and ear fatigue.
10 hours of video editing is about the same as
6 hours of a recording session. Eyes last longer than ears.
2) adding more and more things repeatedly
or agonizing about the "PERFECT take" till #123
can be overload for the track and the players.
Sleepy Lagoon, take #64 on a hawaiian tuned steel overdubed in sesssion
by a G major dobro player was killing me one night.
Especially crazy when the clock is on.
The best producers know what they can hide
and what MUST be redone. Even the Beatles classics
have things best left unknown to the world.
It's in there, but not apparent.
And they also know how far the musicians can be pushed
toward their 'personal perfection level'.
NOT perfection, but their reasonable best.
A combination of good taste, psycology, and technique to make a good track.
And you ALWAYS look back and say... gee I wish I had....
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 4 Mar 2007 4:02 am
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I hear ya David..perhaps the word some or MANY should have used.
A person who owns 7 Steels and 10 Guitars does not make them a fine player, it makes them a multi owner.
I have a phrase I use when we are doing FULL BAND demo's after a few hours and several sour takes..
It's not better, it's different..
my opinion for entry level recording is to start simple with a basic 4 or 8 tracker to get the learning curve moving. The process and the proceedure is the same.
t |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2007 6:09 am
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great thread this has become. keep it up.
'when do I know when a painting is finished?'
almost every time it tells me it is done. there is a quality about it. it had become embued with 'something'. there is a purity of idea coming through.
that is when it is done.
then I use all my art schooling and have all sorts of words to qualify the work's completeness. and I laugh at how erudite I can sound.
for me it is best to let the Muse use me. I trust my instincts and training and let it fly.
if after hours, days, or weeks, and I have a so so work I consider the original idea an deem if it was a good one or not.
and there is always more paint and canvas.
yeah, take #164. |
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