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Topic: Leavitt up, Leavitt down ! |
Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Feb 2007 9:14 am |
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The standard 6-string Leavitt tuning is as follows: (Low to high) Db.E.G.Bb.C.D. It is unique in that it optimizes the chord possibilities of a 6-string lap steel.
Many experienced steel players have been reluctant to learn the Leavitt tuning because the familiar 6th tuning scale and chord patterns don't work with the Leavitt.
Even though the tuning is brilliantly laid out, it involves basically starting over. Gone is the basic major triad & gone are the full 6th sounds.
Since I own an 8-string steel, I wanted to make use of the extra string potential without comprimising the integrity of the original tuning.
What I came up with is: (low to high) C.Db.E.G.Bb.C.D.Eb.
The "Eb" on top fills out the EbMaj6th chord giving the 6th tuning players more to work with, and the "C" on bottom restores the basic major triad to the tuning. An"A" on bottom seemed more logical,at first, but didn't contribute as much as the "C".
The "Eb" on top was another forum member's idea, but I couldn't come up with anything better. It not only adds to the 6th chords but also adds a lot of the "Nashville" E9th sound to the tuning.
A special thanks to Mike Ihde for sharing Bill Leavitts legacy with the rest of us!
~~W.C.~~ |
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Mike Ihde
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 8:34 am
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Wayne,
Sounds like a good choice for an 8 string version of the tuning. I wish I had an 8 string to try it out on.
Let me hear or see some of your arrangements when you get them worked out.
Just a small issue, let's keep the tuning listed as Bill wanted it with the 6th string (or 7th in your set up) as a C# not Db. The tuning is based on a C# diminished seventh chord.
It's the same problem I've had for years with the E9th pedal steel tuning, the second string is a D# NOT an Eb. In the key of E there are no Eb's.
I'm sure Bill would be very pleased that so many players have embraced his work.
Thanks |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 9:01 am
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Mike.
The use of Eb by players who play the E9 tuning is more of a function of what they are more comfortable with rather than the strict adhereing to music rules as is taught in the class room.
Yes there are rules in language and in music, but the real world experiences will dictate what becomes common and acceptable.
The strict adherance to music notation rules is not a priority in the steel guitar community as the prevelant notation is tab. Steel guitarists are not as bound to the "correctness" of what is a sharp or a flat depending on what key your in or what their tuning is called. Sure we should be more literate in the standard notation of music, but that is just the reality of the current situation. |
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 9:19 am
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Mike, sometimes a fella just can't win! Once upon a time I posted a C7th tuning which had an A# note in it, because I was trying to communicate the potential to C6 players. I was quickly corrected by someone who pointed out to me that there are no sharps in "C". This time I was again thinking of Bill's tuning as being rooted in "C", especially after I added the "C" note on the bottom. I sure didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess I sort of know what I'm talking about, even if no one else assumes I might think I could be right.  Sorry, I'm just a typical musician with a warped sense of humor.  On a more serious note, it really bothers me that the majority of steel players give up so easily when presented with something which has as much potential as the Leavitt Tuning. Oh well, I guess we'll just have to change the world one note at a time!
~~W.C.~~ |
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Mike Ihde
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 10:47 am
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Wayne,
I agree, one note at a time is a good way to look at it.
Bill,
As a teacher I always try to make sure my students don't look stupid or ignorant when they get out into the real world. That goes for the music they learn and the way the speak. If a student is always saying "like" every other word, I feel it's my place to tell them that you just can't go out in the world speaking that way. If the say "orientated" instead of "oriented," I need to correct them so they don't sound dumb to other people. I know the Eb has been part of the pedal steel world forever, but that doesn't mean it's right or shouldn't be changed. Just as there are basic rules of english grammar, the same goes for music and people really should try to be as literate as possible in both areas. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 11:26 am
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I haven't tried this tuning yet. Is this a country type tuning?
When E9th was mentioned it made me wonder, since I'm really not into pedal or modern country sounds.
Regards BILL |
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Roy Thomson
From:
Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 11:47 am
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In my experience with the Leavitt Tuning I found it
important to stick with the basic original 6 string set-up
and learn some songs/scales/chords to become familiar first.
Adding extra strings too soon takes the focus away from the
wealth of chords and voicings within the basic 6 string tuning.
I like to think of the added strings as auxiliary.
The Eb on the top position works well. I have also tried a
"B" ( guage .20 ) on top which gives the G major or V11 chord.
I have also used the low C and the G# as the eighth string.
It is not that hard to change these string settings from time
to time so I have no desire to go beyond 8. Again, doing so
takes the focus away from the beauty of the original six.
Just my thoughts.
Roy |
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Roy Thomson
From:
Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 11:59 am
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Hi Bill ( Creller )...
I use the Leavitt for "anystyle" and find it very versatile.
I have a folio of 10 songs with Tab/CD all performed on the original 6 string set-up. ( Some copies still available ).
A sample of each song is contained in the link below.
Feel free to email me if you wish to try my approach.
roythomson@eastlink.ca
http://freefilehosting.net/download/OTQwNTM=
Roy |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 5:10 pm
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Thanks for the generous offer Roy. You may think I'm not very bright, but I haven't ever used tab and don't know how!!  |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 5:15 pm
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I just listened to the stuff on your hosted sounds, and the tuning sound extremely nice
BILL |
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Mike Ihde
From:
Boston, MA
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Feb 2007 8:20 pm
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That's really nice Mike. I'll tune one of my guitars to that and see what I think about it 
Regards BILL |
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 16 Feb 2007 9:20 am
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Roy, you are correct, in that adding strings and /or notes can take away the focus from the original tuning; however, there is also a wealth of simple songs/tunes out there which are primarily based on major chords and scales (with an occasional dominant 7th or Maj6th). These songs usually sound more accurate when played with the original major triads, instead of altered or rootless chords. I was just trying to strengthen the only weak link in the Leavitt tuning chain. Make no mistake, I have a healthy respect for the original tuning, its creator, and Mike as well. Perhaps I am a bit greedy and want to have it all, but if you can have a whole pie without eating someone else's, why not do it? I have an 8-string steel so why not use all of it?
Different perspectives can generate new solutions to old problems. Bill Leavitt must have felt that way; look at the result; a radically different approach to playing lap steel which gives the instrument new potential!
~~W.C.~~ |
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 9:24 am
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Since my original post, I have made a modification which I believe is an improvement over my original. I have eliminated the "C" for string 8 and replaced it with another Eb. So there won't be any misunderstanding, this is an "out-of-sequence" string or note and is one octave below the top Eb. It restores the basic major triad in a more convenient and accessible place.
I'm not sure if Mike would want it to read (low to high), "Eb.C#.E.G.Bb.C.D.Eb", or not. Regardless, it sure opens the door for all of those who already play "6th" tunings.
~~W.C.~~ |
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Mike Ihde
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 24 Feb 2007 9:44 am
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Wayne,
That looks interesting. Why not put the new Eb as string 7 right next to the E?
Also, I was going thorough some old mail and found this from Ian McLatchie. He had put an A on the bottom and an F on top (low to high) A,C#, E, G, Bb, C, D, F. That gives a new dominant chord (A7) on the bottom and a Bb major on strings 1, 3 and 4 plus Gm7 on 1, 2, 4 and 5.
If Ian is a member here, maybe he can tell us wether this worked out or not. |
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Feb 2007 10:09 am
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MIKE, concerning the Eb on the bottom, I simply thought it would make for an easier transition from a 6-string Leavitt to 8-string Leavitt by keeping the original 6-string pattern intact. I felt it would help those who are already experienced with the original tuning, while opening up the tuning to the "6th" players.
just my $0.02 worth.
~~W.C.~~ |
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