Cheap Hammond B3

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

For those of you into keys, check out Native Instruments Hammond B4 (B3 emulation) software. I am blown away! Tone, keyclick, drawbar hamonics, amp drive... not that I'm a B3 expert but this is awesome! A MIDI keyboard, a laptop, and you're off. At wayy less than the 400 pounds and $3,000 plus of a B3.

And if you get tired of the B3 there's a Farfisa and a Vox Continental in there Very Happy

-eric

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Way cool, Eric, thanx for the tip off!

www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=b4ii_us

I wonder if we'll ever see dedicated B3 user's like Gregg Allman using this on the road?

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Ron, the answer is no.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I think Skip is right.

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

Probably won't get Gregg off his B3, but I have noticed Al Kooper at a synthesizer a few times of late (Korg Triton).

-eric

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I play in a church band and get to listen to a real B3 every Sunday. I listened to the software fake B3 and found it to be no better than some of the other stuff out there. The real thing is just so much better. Sorry.

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

Well, *any* synthesizer these days is digital, so fundamentally any synthesizer or emulator is software (with the exception of a very few analog synths still hanging around). The only difference is the complexity of the signal processing. The "virtual tonewheels" Korg, Roland, and Hammond/Suzuki use are no more than multiple DSPs (software blown into silicon). I agree that I haven't heard anything that isn't a B3 really sound like a B3, but I have to wonder how much of that is a product of the speakers and space they play into. My living room isn't going to sound like a hall no matter how much 'verb I dial in.

I am impressed by how well a $200 piece of software can do these days.

-eric

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I wonder how it would sound with a steel?
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons

Jay Ganz · From: Out Behind The Barn

I've got a "cheap" Hammond. It's actually an old '65 L-100 which
was considered a mini B3. I played it along with the steel on some
tunes on my website.

Mark Vinbury · From: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island, USA

Some B3 clips you may not have seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60ut7yIuCEY&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WholfTUYs1w&mode=related&search=

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

I've used the Native B-3 software at my friend's studio,the sounds were good.What I don't like is you can only work the drawbars using a mouse,and that's hard to do while your playing,also you need a CV volume pedal and the one that we finally got working didn't have a throw anywhere close to a real B-3.There's something about playing a real B-3 it's like driving a Big Ol' Cadillac,I can't imagine Greg Allman being comfortable behind anything but the real one.If they made a keyboard with real time drawbar controllers,and a better volume controller it would be more useable at a gig.I've got a 1949 Hammond M-3 and the big thing that I notice is most of the new organs are just to bright,it seems like they would have to be played out of a couple of closed back cabinets to get rid of the chirp.
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Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

There are USB Drawbars that you can use with your computer.

http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikmesse04/Content/Native_Instruments/PR/B4D.html

It'll never be the real thing, but it's very close, and a lot more portable.

When I need a good B3 sound I use a Roland VK-8M
http://www.roland.com/products/en/VK-8M/index.html

It has very realistic Leslies and can do Tone Wheel tricks.
I've used it in a Santana Tribute with excellent results.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Vinbury. Thanks for the link to the chick B3 player. Nice footwork!

The organ she is playing has some midi stuff going on. See here tweak the little modules in front of her and to the left. Her left hand was playing a piano patch on the lower manual. Nice bass tone on the pedals.

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

Bill, as a side note; excellent work on Tommy Dodds CD "Looking Back". I haven't taken it out of my CD player for days...

Mike Black · From: New Mexico, USA

Mark Eaton · Posted 22 Feb 2007 12:33 pm

I guess that means if you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Booker T., I believe, still lives nearby in Tiburon, on the bay, literally down the road from where Otis Redding was inspired to write Sittin' On The Dock Of The Bay (with the help of Steve Cropper).

Over Christmas, I was checking out a Bay Area band that has gotten back together after some success in the 80's, The Tazmanian Devils. Their lead guitarist, Dave Carlson, is a fantastic player-and he used to be my son's guitar teacher.

They had a guy sitting in with them on keyboards, and he was playing a portable Hammond organ-not knowing model numbers for these things-it has the same general look as a Korg, or Yamaha, or Roland electric keyboard.

I realize that this is a different animal than the subject of Eric's thread, but unless I were big time enough to have roadies, I wouldn't want to deal with a Hammond B-3, that's for sure!

I worked briefly for Sherman Clay Organs back in the 70's doing two man team deliveries of organs. I can remember one location where we probably violated a plethora of OSHA regulations getting an organ up 3 flights of narrow stairs to a flat in San Francisco. it was a good thing I was about 20 at the time!

At any rate, the compact Hammond that this guy was playing with the Tazmanian Devils, and I have no clue what his amp and speaker setup was, would have sounded just fine under the fingers of Booker T., Gregg Allman, Steve Winwood, or our fellow forumite, Skip Edwards.

Maybe if someone were playing an actual B-3 on the other side of the stage, and they were trading riffs back and forth, I might have been able to tell the difference-but it sounded pretty darned "B-3ish" to me!
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Mark

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Joey Ace thanks for the link to the Midi drawbars,That makes it a whole lot more appealing for a gig.
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Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Mike, Green Onions was cut on an M3, without a Leslie.
The M3 was a smaller Hammond tone-wheel/drawbar organ.

btw, thanks, Mark.

Mark Eaton · Posted 22 Feb 2007 2:42 pm

You are most welcome, sir.
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Mark

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

Mike and Mark and all,

Interesting stuff. I didn't know about the USB drawbars, but they look like a very good idea.

I did see the listing about Booker T's B3 and Leslies. I think there was a mumble about north of $25K. Compared to a vintage Les Paul or Strat, that's actually cheap.

And like Mark I wouldn't want to move one without roadies. Big ones.

Jeremy Steele · From: Princeton, NJ USA

When I worked for S.I.R. in NYC in the 70s we frequently used to have to deliver rental gear to Max's Kansas City, which was up a LONG flight of very narrow stairs...even with 4 men (which was the standard deployment, one on each handle of the dolly) it was ALWAYS an ordeal to get a B3 up there (and back down, at the end of the night).

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

[quote="Marlin Smoot"]Bill, as a side note; excellent work on Tommy Dodds CD "Looking Back".

Thank you Marlin.

Also the other famous B3 song that was not recorded on a B3 is Whiter Shade of Pale. It was done on a Hammond spinet model M101 if my memory serves me correct.

Edit. My memory served me incorrectly. The Hammond used on WSOP was model M-102.

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Bill,it sure sounds like a B-3 to me on "Whiter Shade"I can hear the lower octave on the big gliss that brings in the chorus,The L and the M models don't have have that octave...Correct me if I'm stupid.O r does the M101 have 5 octaves?
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Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

The part on Whiter Shade was played by Mathew Fisher on a Hammond M102. The top manual on the spinet Hammonds does not have the foldback of the larger organs, but the way the top manual was registered by Fisher at the recording session negated the need of that feature.

The B3 sub freq that you think you are hearing is not there from the organ, which is one of the best Hammond glisses on tape is it not!

You can do a Google search to verify this. Lots of folks don't know that the M102 was used on this tune. I think the original M102 he used was stolen from him.

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

I bought an M3 for $100 a while back, and it sounds pretty darn good compared to any of the other B3/Hammond synth sounds I've got around. There's something about moving air I think.... but it's a back-breaker.

Regarding the lack of foldback on these Hammonds, I did a bit of research and found this link, DIY foldback mod.. I decided it was a bit more than I wanted to tackle.

http://www.sympac.com.au/~retrojet/foldback.htm

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