| Which version do you play |
| Marty Robbins - as per the sheet music |
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45% |
[ 5 ] |
| Alfred Apaka's with the changed timing |
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45% |
[ 5 ] |
| Another way |
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9% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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| Author |
Topic: My Isle of Golden Dreams, which version do you play ? |
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 22 Jan 2007 7:24 am |
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There are in the main, two different ways to phrase this song.
1. As per alfred Apaka with INCORRECt timing.
2. As per the sheet music.
The sheet music is as Marty Robbins does it. :-
Marty Robbins
The other as per Alfred Apaka, uses a different timing of the notes on the line "Call Tenderly" :-
Alfred apaka
I find the Alfred Apaka version is more listener friendly as the extended timing ads tension and release to the section.
What do you think ?
Nothing to do with the poll, but of similar interest,
BTW (By The Way) Marty Robbins isn't ALWAYS right, his version of "Don't Sing Aloha When I Go" is FAR removed from the sheet music NOTATION, but again, better to listen to than the original IMHO.
Don't Sing Aloha When I Go
The notation starts the chorus with C# D, D# E, G...
Whilst Marty sing a DESCENDING run :- G,F#, F, E, G. (On the words Dont Sing A-lo-Ha)
It also varies quite considerably in the middle section.
_________________
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Gerald Ross
From:
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2007 7:55 am
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Marty Robbins rushes and pushes the lyrics. The band is playing a solid 3/4 behind him. Robbins sounds a bit frantic.
Alfred Apaka is more in the 3/4 pocket. More relaxed.
Robbins arrangement - Nashville - recording EQ high end emphasis.
Apaka arrangement - Hawaiian - recording EQ more midrange.
_________________
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
A UkeTone Recording Artist
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Hawaiian Steel Guitar/Ukulele Website |
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Jay Yuskaitis
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2007 8:11 am
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Marty Robbins version, as I learned the song via sheet music.
Jay Y. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 22 Jan 2007 5:28 pm
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I think I learned 70% of my Hawaiian material from Jerry Byrd playing on Marty Robbins' recordings.
In this instance the best version is by Basil Henriques, but you didn't list that as an option.
Andy Williams also does an acceptable version. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Kris Oka
From:
San Francisco, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2007 10:28 pm
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| I can't play this tune but I like Baz's steel version and Alpaka's vocals. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 22 Jan 2007 10:39 pm
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I have (around here somewhere) Jerry Byrds solo on that tune, taken off the radio (WLW) in the forties. I personally like it better that all the rest, but I like Alfreds too. Your version sounds like the correct timing to me Basil. I had a hard time in the old days getting the rythm guitar player started on the down beat.
Regards BILL |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 22 Jan 2007 11:43 pm
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 A cool song
Last edited by Don Kona Woods on 23 Jan 2007 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 23 Jan 2007 12:06 am
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My Isle of Golden Dreams is one of my favorites.
I especially like Alfred Apaka's version here. Another favorite singer of mine, Nina Kealiiwahamana, does an outstanding version of this. She has a extra-ordinary talent for communicating a song rather than just singing it. Do you know what I mean?
I have played Jerry Byrd's arrangement of this in C6th, but I also have played it in B11th, an arrangement by a good friend of mine. I like the B11th arrangement better.
Aloha, 
Don |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 23 Jan 2007 12:15 am
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My Isle of Golden Dreams is a favorite of mine.
I particularly like Alfred Apaka doing this. Another favorite singer, Nina Kealiiwahamana, does this number especially well. She is a true communicator of Hawaiian music in song, and not just a singer. Do you know what I mean?
I have played Jerry Byrd's arrangement of this number in C6th, but I like the B11th version better which was arranged by a good friend of mine.
Aloha,
Don |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 23 Jan 2007 12:25 am
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Sorry guys, 
I was posting, but when I went to the thread, there was no post in sight, so I did another one similar, therefore two posts of the same message. 
For you that need to reread posts, consider this as my reaching out to you. 
Aloha,
Don |
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Jay Yuskaitis
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2007 5:09 am
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I have at least 3 vocal versions of "Isle of Golden Dreams", Bing Crosby, Burl Ives and Marty Robbins, same timing as the sheet music. I do think Alfred Apaka's version sounds much smoother and more "relaxed".
I love anything by Nina.
Jay Y. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 23 Jan 2007 5:45 am
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Jay, I don't have the Burl Ives, Bing Crosby or Nina longname's, BUT I Do have these :-
Felix Mendelssohn
Arthur Lynam
If you notice they are also CORRECT to the sheet music, but AGAIN, not as smooth as the Apaka version.
Accidentally, when Pat and I visited Hawaii, any version we heard was à la Apaka. |
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George Keoki Lake
From:
Edmonton, AB., Canada
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Posted 23 Jan 2007 10:00 am
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BASIL...It's something called "phrasing" which Alfred, Bing and Nina mastered over the years. Marty is strictly country corn-ball....he had absolutely no "feeling or phrasing" on any of the Hawaiian songs he recorded. His voice was great, no question. I often wonder why Jerry was part of that recording other than for the money. One of the GREATEST vocalists in regards to phrasing, still living today has to be TONY BENNETT.
Others, PERRY COMO, FRANK SINATRA never sang "on the beat" like Marty Robbins....all of them were laid back.
As for Nina's last name, I feel an apology is due to her and all Hawaiians in general regarding your comment. She is one lovely lady, tremendously talented and I am very proud to know her. Hawaiian names are not all THAT complicated to pronounce any more than the name Henriques. "Kealiiwahamana"...break it down:
KAY-AA-LEE-EE-WAA-HAA-MAA -NAA...now, was that so difficult ?  |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 23 Jan 2007 10:20 am
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Keoki,
1. Apologies to you and all Hawaiians who took offence to me with regard to Nina Kealiiwahamana's name.
Here in the UK we are STILL coming to grips with the current pronunciation of Hawaii, for years, to us it was HA-WHY-EE.
As for Sol Ho'opi'i, he was ALWAYS Sol HOOP-EE to us, just ask Ken Ufton.
The "Longname" colloquialism has been in use here since the earliest appearance she made on Hawaii Calls. It is in an affectionate way that we use it.
2. I agree about the observations regarding phrasing. BUT, the rule of thumb of phrasing i.e. early or late with a line, does not explain the discrepancy in this instance.
Alfred (along with others, myself included) changes the actual notation timing and DOUBLES the length of EVERY note on the line "Call Tenderly".
I think that it's generally accepted that phrasing refers to the MOVEMENT in time of a complete word or line, not the alteration of their length values.
In MANY cases when 'Phrasing is involved in a vocal, it's a line taken LATE and possibly shortened in the notation to make up for it's length.
I think ? |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 24 Jan 2007 5:22 am
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Haha, no sweat Baz. Keali'iwahamana is 8 syllables long, which I would consider a long name compared to most people's. And I say Ha-wai-ee (as opposed to Ha-vai-ee)...both are said here, both are correct.
As for Marty Robbins... just curious... was his Hawaiian stuff ever popular with American folks? He's kind of a running joke with Hawaiian musicians my age. Kinda like "Wow, that was almost as good as Marty Robbins' recording of it..."  |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 24 Jan 2007 6:22 am Apaka version for me...
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I way prefer the Apaka version. I absolutely LOVE Marty Robbins' western, "gun-slinger" stuff (Big Iron, Cool Water, etc), but his take on the Hawaiian stuff just doesn't do anything for me.
My .02 - YMMV...
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 24 Jan 2007 5:44 pm
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Absolutely. I play it all the time on my long commute across the San Francisco Bay twice a day. I've made copies of all your CDs which I keep in the car. The originals are at home locked away. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 27 Jan 2007 4:56 pm
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| I'm a little surprised about the adverse comments on Marty Robbins' Hawaiian albums. I play them over and over again. Yes, I have a lot of Alfred Apaka albums, but they don't get played anything like as much as Marty's. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 27 Jan 2007 8:07 pm
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No adverse comment from me Alan, I said :-
| Quote: |
| Marty Robbins isn't ALWAYS right, his version of "Don't Sing Aloha When I Go" is FAR removed from the sheet music NOTATION, but again, better to listen to than the original IMHO. |
I really like his two Hawaiian albums, and the single that preceded them. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 28 Jan 2007 10:48 am
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| George Keoki Lake wrote: |
| ...It's something called "phrasing" which Alfred, Bing and Nina mastered over the years. Marty is strictly country corn-ball....he had absolutely no "feeling or phrasing" on any of the Hawaiian songs he recorded. His voice was great, no question. I often wonder why Jerry was part of that recording other than for the money. |
This is what I was referring to about the adverse comments. Maybe as I'm not Hawaiian I miss out on the nuances of Hawaiian music, but I found Marty's Hawaiian recordings incredibly entertaining. Jerry was involved because he was a long-time friend of Marty's, going back to the 50s hits "Singing the Blues", "A White Sport Coat", etc. I was under the impression that Marty's Hawaiian recordings were recorded in Hawaii, because I read somewhere that the local musicians found his pronunciation of some of the Hawaiian phrases hilarious, and he had a lot of practising to do. |
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 28 Jan 2007 3:53 pm
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| I can't speak for everyone, but I think a lot of Hawaiians find Marty's voice particularly "fluttery" and anxious sounding. But Alan I think you've nailed it... it's the pronounciation. A lot of people here find it offensive. I probably shouldn't elaborate too much on that... but it is the case. |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 28 Jan 2007 5:02 pm
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| Quote: |
| .... he had absolutely no "feeling or phrasing" |
| Quote: |
| .....voice particularly "fluttery" and anxious sounding. |
If you notice the tempo of the song as sung by Marty, the tempo is toooo fast. You cannot adequately phrase your words to that song at that tempo and have feeling.
Notice the tempo in which Alfred Apaka does it, much slooower.
The tempo of that song is slooow. 
That is my opinion which sometimes is not humble. Sorry about that. 
Aloha,
Don |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 29 Jan 2007 5:53 pm
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| Jeff Au Hoy wrote: |
| ... it's the pronounciation. A lot of people here find it offensive. |
Singing in a language you don't speak is a dangerous thing to do, and Country singers often do it. I cringe at "donka shane" instead of "danka shern", "walla" instead of "vwolla", but the worst of all is "nowtra dame" instead of "nottra dam" (All written phoenetically, of course.)
Let's not forget the movie "moulin rouge" which everyone seems to pronounce "moulon rouge". |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 29 Jan 2007 6:44 pm
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One of the reasons that in the movie world there are vocal coaches. It's a pity that SOME recording artists didn't take the job a little more seriously.
Of course the blame can, and should, be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of the producer.
That's where the ultimate responsibility lies.
If Marty Robbins used wrong pronunciation, it was the responsibility of any and everyone involved in the recording to point out the mistakes. Like in 'Lovely Hula Hands" he sings "TOe Lima nani e' "
I'm pretty sure if he had mispronounced a word in Mexican Spanish, it would have rapidly been corrected. Seems that the Hawaiian language on quite a few non Island recordings was treated in a Pidgin English way.
I may add that most of the records by Felix Mendelsohn's Hawaiian Serenaders were very well researched vis a vis the lyrics and correct pronunciation. Not All European recordings were treated so diligently though. |
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