| Author |
Topic: Sho~Bud Professional ??'s |
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 10:51 am |
|
Hello I bought a Professional. Never had any experience with this type changer.Single raise and lower. Anyway, where do you tune the 5th string C pedal or any string that is raised more then once?
Also very important. This guitar smells like it's been in a closet for 50 years. The mildew smell makes me sick.I can't even bring it indoors.What's a safe way to kill the mold-mildew-whatever without damaging the finish? Thanks in advance........bb
Last edited by Bobby Boggs on 16 Jan 2007 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
 |
Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 12:17 pm Re: Sho~Bud Professional ??'s
|
|
Hi Bobby, Needless to say I think you will get loads of replies regards your "Professional" All I know about those mechanics, is that they are "infinite" raise and lower which are done on the barrels underneath. With carefull setting up, those are one of the best sounding Sho-Buds around. Enjoy it  Re the smell, in England there is a spray can product called Oust. There must be a similar product in America from one of your Malls in the cleansing department. Just use the spray all around the steel in a closet or a confined space, and if it's anything like Oust, the smell will dissapear. I had to use that product on a Sho-Bud I had that was burned in a fire. The smell was awfull, but was soon removed. Thankfully that Bud is nearly completely rebuilt now by a good craftsman over here.
Micky Byrne United Kingdom www.mickybyrne.com |
|
|
|
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
|
|
|
|
Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 1:10 pm
|
|
| I always adjusted the A & C 5th string pull at the same rod. Or any other double-raise, for that matter. The only barrel that's going to be flush up against the rack will be the one that you're trying to tune...the other barrel for that string won't be tight up against the rack, so it's tuning won't be affected. |
|
|
|
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 1:17 pm
|
|
Skip's your man!
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 16 Jan 2007 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Steve Waltz
From:
USA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 1:21 pm Sho bud professional C pedal tuning
|
|
I beleive you should tune the C pedal first then your A pedal. Tune things that are closer to the changer first. The same tuning wrench spot for your A pedal is what you turn for the C pedal. There is a barrel for each. There may be a set up issue to get the barrel for the A pedal to not be ingaged when tuning the C pedal but mine works fine so I haven't had to deal with it.
There is quite a bit of info on these guitars in the search function of the old database for the SGF. It's good to figure that stuff out since there are some good ideas of how and where to set the barrels so that they don't get knocked backwards with a strong pedal push. I learned to take my barrels apart, clean them, slight lube and put back so that they turn easily. You can also adjust or bend the springs so that they hit the rack properly otherwise they will just spin. I have to occasinally reset the barrels so that they are in the mid position so that you have the room to tune.
Steve |
|
|
|
Jay Yuskaitis
From:
Massachusetts, USA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 1:28 pm
|
|
If you will E mail me your postal address, I'll send you a copy of the original 2 page tuning instructions that came with the Sho Bud rack and barrel models. About the mildew problem, there must be a dozen ways to get rid of it. My way, is household bleach, diluted with water, 40 parts water to 1 part bleach. Do not soak any part with it. Use a dampened cloth and wipe down as much UNFINISHED area as you can get to. On the finished areas, I use Pledge or spay polish, as many times as need be.
I know there must be better ways.
Jay Y. |
|
|
|
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 3:38 pm
|
|
Ok, I got rid of the funky smell with 2 % bleach.
I thought you did all the tunning at the end-plate, Didn't know you had to reach under it to tune the barrels, This is downer. That's one of the reason I don't play my 66 PP.
And unless I'm missing something.It's just as limited as a PP.I bought this guitar just for kicks.Sounds great. But I'm very disappointed with the limited changer.Again maybe I'm missing something here. I hope so.
Which model Bud was it tha some talk about being to easy to add pulls to. I read all this stuff but wasn't really intered at the time.Thanks for the help. Keep it coming.........bb |
|
|
|
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 3:47 pm
|
|
Jay, I will e-mail you. Thanks
Steve, so you're saying tune the C pedal first 5th string.Then use the barrel on the rod of the A pedal to tune the 5th string?I have been tuning the A pedal first.I'll try it your way. The problem, the barrels are stiff and need to be freed up. Call me spoiled.But I don't like reaching under a greasy guitar to tune it.  [/quote] |
|
|
|
Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 3:56 pm
|
|
Bobby, all the Buds "after" the rack and barrel system were easy to add changes to. My S-12 Bud is only a double raise/ single lower changer, all done on the end plate. I did however have to have some modifications to the undercarriage to accomadate it to a universal tuning, but if you have a standard tuning, it's easier to get a Bud with either double raise/double lower, or the later triple raise/triple lower, for additional changes. All done at the end plate and so easy as compared to your PP and "Professional"
Micky Byrne U.K. www.mickybyrne.com |
|
|
|
Steve Waltz
From:
USA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 4:28 pm
|
|
"Steve, so you're saying tune the C pedal first 5th string.Then use the barrel on the rod of the A pedal to tune the 5th string?"
All tuning of pedals and levers is done at the changer end, with the use of an allen wrench. Tune the open strings in the way that you choose at the keys. You do not tune the pedals at the grover tunners on top of the guitar like you would a PP. There is also no need to touch any part under the guitar in order to tune it if it is set up right. Press your C pedal, get your allen wrench into the right space on the changer end on the side, turn it one way and the note should go sharp, turn it the other and it should go flat. When your C pedal is done then, using the exact same spot that tuned the C, engage your A pedal and tune again. All pedals and levers will be tuned in the same way. Just look over and see which part is moving while you engage a pedal to see where it is. If you have a barrel that is not moving, it may not be dirty, it may be at the limit of it's movement. It may be all the way in or all the way out or the spring may not be hitting the rack. It also could be dirty.
Changing the rods on these is easy. Losen the larger part of the barrel, ( that holds onto the rod) and remove the barrel off the rod. The rod will pull out of the changer end. Reinsert the rods to the string that you want to alter. The top row is for raises the lower for lowers. Put the barrel behind the rack that you want to move and tighten. Adjust pedal travel under the guitar and tune it. Because the racks are all big and ready for any arrangement, you don't have to move cranks like on a Pro 11. I think that is easy but I don't have that many guitars. It's at least a lot easier than the pull release guitar I have.
Sorry if that was long or redundant.
Steve
Steve |
|
|
|
Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 4:44 pm
|
|
What Steve said.
_________________
Twang to the bone! |
|
|
|
Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 4:45 pm
|
|
You don't have to reach underneath and twiddle with the barrels in order to tune. On any given change- as in the one you're tuning - only that barrel will be in a tight contact with the rack, so only that barrel will turn. So the 5th string A & C pedal pulls are done with the same rod, but different barrels with be tuned underneath. Same thing with the 4th string raises.
It's proper practice to set your barrels with the thread about halfway when you first setup your gtr (or every now and then as maintenance) so that the barrel will have plenty of room to adjust either way. And lubrication is never a bad idea, but if it's too lubed the barrel might turn a little on it's own. It only takes a small bit of a turn to affect tuning.
The 'infinite' raise and lower system on these old Buds is really a marvel of simplicity. Since all the raises on a string share the same rod - and the lowers share a rod, as well - you can load the gtr with a slew of changes and micro-pulls without adding extra bell cranks and rods. And yeah, there is some adjustment that you have to do to get it all right. You have to make sure that your barrels are lining up right. You don't want a barrel to be touching a rack when it's change isn't engaged. If you have that going on, when you tune one barrel, you'll end up affecting the tuning of another.
A downside is that you can't really time your pulls like you can on a modern guitar. You're going to have some slack. Since you have at least 2 pulls on most changes, and since different gauge strings have to travel different distances to acheive the desired pitch change, the only way to make this happen on a rack and barrel is to have the string that travels less start it's pull a little later. Since the rack is a straight piece of metal, and not an individual string puller able to be angled for each string...and since it doesn't have, say, 14 holes for adjusting the timing of a pull on it's own rod like a Legrande..then the barrel that travels less will sit a little further on the rod away from the rack when it's at a neutral position...and the pull that needs to travel more will be closer to the rack...but not tight up against it. So when you engage a pedal or lever there is a minute bit of slack before you engage the string that travels more, and a bit more slack on the shorter pull. And it's barely noticeable... I've never felt this slack to be any problem when playing my old Bud.
There's are a couple of changes that can be tight against a rack at neutral, if there's no other pull on that string. On, say, you're E's to Eflat lever, if you're not lowering that those two strings anywhere else, then the string that travels the most...the 4th string..can live tight against the rack, although the 8th string will have some slack at neutral. Same thing with the 3rd & 6th string G# to A change.
There's a spring on the barrel that protudes a little from the end of the barrel, and for the life of me, I really don't know exactly what their purpose is in all this....but I'm sure they do something. Whatever they do, it's a mystery to me, since I've always been able to tune - and load up with plenty of changes - an old rack and barrel Bud without paying too much close attention to the little spring dealies. Maybe Bobbe or Ricky Davis could add some about that.
I do know that these Buds play really well when they're set up right - as does any steel - and they sound exactly like you want a Sho-Bud to sound.
And what Steve said.
Last edited by Skip Edwards on 17 Jan 2007 4:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
Steve Waltz
From:
USA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 4:55 pm
|
|
The spring sticks out of the part of the barrel that comes into contact with the rack. As the barrel turns when it tunes the part sticking out gets stuck on the rack holding the bottom of the barrel in place so that the back part will turn causing the barrel to shorten or to get longer which is what causes the change to sharp or flat. If the spring is there, everything works fine. If the spring is broken or too short, the barrel will not screw into or out of it'self. which means no tuning change.
I have also read that on strings with out mutiple changes, it is a good idea to push the barrel against the rack. The distance between the rack and the barrel can cause more force to hit the barrel which can knock the barrel away from the rack more often. I don't know if that is true but I set mine up that way and I don't seem to have any tuning issues during shows.
Steve
Steve |
|
|
|
James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 5:03 pm
|
|
Skip and Steve have got this explanation pretty much under control. I'd like to respectfully add, I would NOT oil the barrel tuners. You want them tight and grimey. If they are oiled up real good, they will tend to back off and detune as you play. That's what drives a lot of folks nuts, and why they complain that the guitar won't stay in tune. I like my barrels stiff.
Now, the deal on the little springs on the barrels. There is a short "nub" that sticks out of the rack side of the barrel. It's function is to catch on the rack when you press a pedal/knee lever and engage the pull. (When you release the pedal it needs to barely miss the rack, so adjust accordingly.) If the spring nub DOESN'T catch, then the barrel will "free turn" when you turn the allen wrench at the changer, and the barrel will fail to travel up or down the threads, thus failing to tune. In this case, now you WILL be reaching under and holding the barrel by hand. Hope this helps. |
|
|
|
Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 5:07 pm
|
|
| Bobby, my first steel was a Professional, and I called you about it, remember? I will share with you, the advice you gave to me, in 2 words----Charles Reece! |
|
|
|
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 6:36 pm
|
|
The problem here guys.This guitar has been rerodded by someone who knows less than I. So I'm having to start from ground zero with nothing to go by except you guys advice.
The way it's set-up now. There is no way to tune all pulls from the changer.You can tune one there.Then tune the other on a barrel if it's not stuck.This alone. Is proof the guitar is not setup right. But I aint done yet.Thanks to you guys.I'm learning. |
|
|
|
mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 6:54 pm
|
|
Bobby,
The other guys have said it all.... and said it well. If you think that there might be something funny with the setup, post a couple of pictures of the underside. If something is very wrong, it will be obvious. |
|
|
|
James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 7:22 pm
|
|
If you get stumped, Wait for Jay's instructional book he offered---at least you will have some illustrations. It DOES have some illustrations, right Jay? I'll try to send you a few pics for you to see a little, Bobby.  |
|
|
|
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 7:33 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| Which model Bud was it that some talk about being to easy to add pulls to. I read all this stuff but wasn't really interesed at the time.Thanks for the help. Keep it coming.........bb |
Ok, this is the one.I reread all the post and everything looks good on paper.Wish you guys had been here 6 hours ago.
When I first started to tune it. I had in mind that everything could be tuned from the changer. So I tuned the 4th to F#. No problem.Then I tuned the F. Release the knee. I'm 50 cents sharp.I do this again. Same thing. So, I think I need to add travel to the knee.Good idea.But no go.I'll start looking for broken parts. if I had a guitar to go by. It would be a walk in the park. The worst part.I feel sure the travel is not set right on any pedal. So I'm in for a long nite. And did I mention I have tendonitis so bad in my right arm that I'm in pain just trying to brush my teeth? Forget about playing. And I'll probably lift this thing another 100 times tonite. Damn the torpedoes. The work must go on. 
Thanks guys for putting me on the right road. I'll report back later. Now back to you Steve... |
|
|
|
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 9:36 pm
|
|
Well, boys. I got er up and going.Except for a couple of knee's I need to add some travel to.
Are you guys using your helper raise springs on 4 and 8? I can on my LDG. But it's a different animal. Also. this guitar plays stiff in general.I lubed the top and bottom of the changer,crossbars etc. Can I get to anything if I remove the return springs? Is it worth the trouble?.The B pedal is stiffest.It should be the softest...THanks again...bb |
|
|
|
mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 9:55 pm
|
|
Bobby,
There are two holes on the pedal for attaching the pedal rod connector... you can move it to the hole nearest the pedal rack and the pull will get a lot softer. |
|
|
|
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 10:49 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| There are two holes on the pedal |
I have 2 holes on each crossbar. Is that what you mean? I thought closer to the crossbar would be shorter and stiffer?And further away would be longer and softer? Anyway it's connected in the hole closest to the crossbar. i can't seem to get hooked into the holes that are farthest from the crossbar. What's up with that? |
|
|
|
mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 11:34 pm
|
|
I am talking about holes on the actual pedals.... like this
I have mine in the forward holes for easier pulls.... |
|
|
|
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
|
Posted 16 Jan 2007 11:45 pm
|
|
Thanks Mike. Didn't catch that. How much difference does being hooked in the high side of the rack make?
I also need to thank everyone who E-mailed pics and info.Also a special thanks to Ricky Davis for sharing so much info on the Forum........bb |
|
|
|
