Looking for advice or ideas

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

A lot of times I get hired for double duty gigs on PSG & Telecaster. I end up carrying two amps. I just started using my Vegas 400 again and would like to take advantage of the two channels. It sounds great with steel and pretty good for guitar. Is there some kind of effect or inexpensive pre-amp/eq I can use with guitar and plug into the normal channel to smooth out the sound and get it a little closer to sounding tube-like? The reverb is not working so I'm hoping to find something with reverb on it. I don't know much about effects.

Thanks
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

How 'bout Brad Sarno's Black Box, or the Revelation Preamp?
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Best regards,
Mike

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Pod 2. I actually prefer the Pod 2 to the XT for guitar, and I know plenty of guitar players who feel the same way. These can be had on fleabay for $100 or less. The Deluxe Reverb emulation is pretty durned good when played through a clean solid-state amp with the EQ set pretty flat, to my tastes. I spent a fair amount of time tweaking the settings when I first got it 5 years ago, but using the Vox AC-15 speaker emulation, and I could get it pretty close to my '64 Deluxe Reverb with a Celestion Vintage 30 in it, which I found pretty shocking at the time. The spring reverb emulation is pretty good, and one can add delay and/or compression for a pretty passable rockabilly or country sound.

Naturally, YMMV, and some people don't like Pods. But it's pretty easy to check out, there are lots of 'em out there.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Find you one of the older single rack space Hughes and Kettner Tubeman+ units. They can be had for a bit over $100. Get an AB Box and hook the guitars up so that the Tele hits the Tubeman+ first and then the AB box. You can now easily switch between the two and have your seperate tube sound for the Tele. The Tubeman+ has EQ and three separate sounds for clean, nasty and chainsaw switched with the optional footswitch that usually comes with the unit. I have 5 of these and use them all the time in the studio and on live gigs. Just a thought.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

Dave, how are the other reverbs in the Pod 2? Is there a plate?
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Web: www.chrisledrew.com

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Thanks guys. Good advice! I see of lot of Pods around, especially in the studio.

No need for an AB, BIll. The Vegas has two channels. I'm real happy with the steel channel. Very Happy

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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Chris - there are only two reverb types in the Pod 2 - spring reverb and what they call "digital room reverb". Each has 5 internal parameters that can be varied by hooking up the Pod to a computer via a midi cable and using their software. There is not a specific "plate reverb" model.

Generally speaking, I just use the standard spring reverb setting, which is a pretty reasonable approximation of a Fender-style spring reverb. The default patches use spring reverb for the Fender-style emulations and the digital room reverb for the more distorted amp models like Marshalls. I think that is appropriate, but I use the Pod almost exclusively for Fender-style sounds.

My own view is that these tube amp emulators are more limited than the hype implies. To my tastes, none of the ones I have tried do all emulations equally well. I guess I like the Pod 2 because the Deluxe Reverb model is so good, and I can scale that sound pretty effectively to whatever actual volume I need. The DR has been my main guitar amp for a long time.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

The Digitech Genesis 3 was a competitor to the PODs and some people (myself included) like the modeled sounds better than the Pods - Digitech vs. Line 6, start a war. The Genesis 3, not the Genesis 1, lets you store two separate amp models blended together in each of the 48 presets and the blend can be varied on the fly, effectively giving you 96 presets (and you can dial in dirt by mixing a Blackface with a Boogie, for example). The modeled amps are really responsive to picking dynamics and the chorus, delays, reverbs and such can be dialed is as tiny percentages of the overall signal, with a dedicated knob for quick onstage revisions. You can luck into them under $100, I've seen them go up to $130 or so. They and their proprietary power supply tend to run pretty hot after a while so I'm not sure I'd trust them with my life onstage at Megapalooza.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

No war here, Dave M. I have a Genesis 3, which I like a lot for pedal steel, but less well for guitar. Still, it also has some good sounds. All this stuff is purely a matter of personal taste.

For me, the relatively fragile plastic case and hot running that you mentioned keep the Genesis mostly as a home tool and not part of my gig rig. The Pod, on the other hand, has a tough metal case and has been pretty bulletproof. I've probably played a few hundred gigs and rehearsals with mine, and the only thing that's gone wrong is that the power supply wiring at the tip frayed after 4 years of heavy use, like they do, and I had to wire up a new tip. I keep a second one at home for late-night practicing and backup in case something happens to the first one.

Chris Erbacher · From: Sausalito, California, USA

you may have already thought about this, but what about a twin? it may be a bit heavy, but you could split it up and then have the option of using whatever speaker you want, or have a 12" and a 15" for the best of both worlds, and you wouldn't need any device to get the tube sound. i love my twin, and i really dig the tightnes of the 12"s in the low end with a full band. twins aren't noted for the low end per se, but if you keep the low knob below 3 or so, the low end keeps a nice tight definition without taking over the mids, plus working on them is relatively easy, and you get fender reverb.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Dave, if you're simply trying to make guitar sound a bit driven like it would thru a "guitar" amp, you may want to look into either a cool guitar compressor pedal, or this:

http://www.prosoundcommunications.com/english/xotic/effects/ac_booster/

The Xotic AC Booster.
I've been using it lately for my Strat or Tele since I play at real low stage volumes and even my 12 watt amps run clean. It puts just a hair of dirt on the sound, and also warms up the top end so it's less plinky and more smooth. It's a bit expensive for a guitar pedal, but it really works well. You can even turn up the drive and make it pretty dirty, but barely driven is how I use it.

Of course I'd love to recommend my Black Box, but it runs SO clean, you may be wanting a bit more sustain or dirt to get that "guitar" sound. If you're playing clean country guitar, then a good compressor pedal may be the ticket. If you just want some tube warmth and sweetness, but still a very sparkly clean and dynamic sound, then I'll be happy to recommend a Black Box. I really do believe it's the best way to inject a real rich (clean) tube sound into a transistor amp.
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Brad Sarno

'82 Emmons S-10 push/pull, Revelation Tube Preamp, Furlong SPLIT powered speaker cab, V8 Octal Tube Preamp, Ganz Straight Ahead power amp - JBL D130

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

I had a Yamaha DG Stomp that I thought had better amp sounds the Pod, warmer and less digital sounding. Good effects, too. I see these on Ebay for pretty cheap.

Mike Fried · From: Nashville, TN, USA

For the guitar channel, I'd recommend a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive (an Ibanez Tube Screamer circuit combined with a clean boost that can be blended in) in front of the amp. You can get anything from a clean Fender-ish sound to screaming OD with it, and it's a high-quality piece of gear for not much money (cheaper than a Tube Screamer and more versatile). As for reverb, I'd either run a Boss RV inline or a small dedicated line-level reverb box (ART or Alesis?) in the amp's effects loop, if you can use the same reverb for both instruments.
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Darryl Logue · From: Raytown, Missouri, USA

Dave, I also play steel 80% six string 20% It can be a comprimise. I use a 80's mesa boogie mark III . It needs strong tubes and correct bias to keep it in the clean headroom zone. Similiar to a twin (still heavy) with more options. I frequently run 1/2 power switch for guitar,two tubes. Add a stomp box,compresser etc. for guitar. It works for me.

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

Well, Dave, you got to me, and I just ponied up for a Pod 2 on fleabay. I'm planning to use it for 6-string through the NV112 on small trio gigs we do in small clubs. I know the XT is popular here, but can you get decent steel sound out of them also?
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

Good luck in your search, I have given up trying. I now bring my NV112 and SF Deluxe to all my dual purpose gigs. JP
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Michael - I guess it depends on what you call "good". I had to do a "deep edit" of the parameters and cut at least one of the extra distortion/gain switches. The only effects I use are default spring-style reverb and a little delay around 200 ms. I use the Blackface I emulation (Deluxe Reverb), into its stock speaker emulation, straight into my Nashville 112, which I set pretty flat - maybe a few dB tweaking of the tone controls, depending on the room. I just used this rig the other night with my Zum U12 w/ Truetone wound to around 16 KOhm (thanks Mark Luppold for the pic):

I wanted a more Fender-style sound with these country-rock guys, and I like what this setup gives. But I really like a Deluxe Reverb for steel at low volume. I just can't get anywhere near enough juice out of the real thing in most situations. But if someone isn't ever gonna be happy with anything less than a NV 400 with a 15" BW, I imagine they probably won't like this.

For me, it's important to disable the extra distortion/gain settings that the default emulations tend to use, and keep the Drive knob very moderate, if I want to use it for steel. I think 12 o'clock is supposed to be "stock", and I keep it right around there, or even lower for an overwound pickup. I also disable the compressor - it adds a lot of noise.

To disable those switches on the Pod 2, you need to either use their expensive floorboard or hook it up to a computer via MIDI and use their free software - I do the latter. The switches I turn off are on Appendix D page 1 in the Pod 2 Pilot's manual: One is labelled "Distortion Off/On" - I go with Off. The other is "Drive/Boost" - I go with Off. At least one of those is On with the default Blackface emulation - it sounds OK with guitar, but I usually prefer cleaner for steel. Honestly, I had to play around with this unit for quite a while before I could stand it with steel.

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

Thanks for all the good info, Dave. Do you need something special to hook it up to the internet? I'm planning on just using A/B switch, Pod for 6-string and straight into the NV112 for PSG.
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I was talking about using the Pod for steel itself. For guitar, it works pretty well right out of the box - a little tweaking, and it's good to go. With an A/B box - steel into Steel Guitar Black Box into NV 112 straight, and guitar into Pod into NV 112 - that's fine without a lot of messing around. But I was talking about trying to get something pretty close to a Fender amp steel guitar sound out of a NV 112 by using the Pod as an intermediary - no separate amps for steel and guitar. This gig, I ran the steel into the cleanest Fender-Deluxe-style Pod setting I could get, then into the NV 112. I liked it. I'm supposed to get a board tape, hope it sounds as good as it felt live - I'm not usually happy with live sound, but I was this time.

What I was talking about on the connection was hooking it up to software on a computer via a MIDI cable to use the computer to tweak the internal settings on the Pod. There are a couple of ways to do it. On an older computer with a game port, one can get a MIDI adapter that goes from MIDI-out on the Pod to game port. On a newer computer without a game port, one needs a USB-to-MIDI adapter, then plug MIDI cables from the pod to the MIDI-in of that adapter.

One of the nice advantages of the Pod XT is that all that stuff is accessible from either the Pod panel itself, or one can run a USB cable directly to the computer. The downside, for me, is that I prefer the older Pod for guitar, not to mention it's 2-3 times the price. Sad

Naturally, YMMV, and so on.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Thanks again guys for all the good feedback. I think I'll find something that will work. I have a Pod on the way from a fellow forumite and I may try out some other things from some local friends. My guitars actually don't sound bad through the Vegas but could use a smidge of color or texture.

Chris, I have a Twin but I would have to hurt people with to get a good guitar tone. Very Happy

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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Dave, sorry for jumping in late - but you might look for a used Nobels ODR-1 Overdrive. It's supposedly a Tube Screamer clone, but it seems to work well with SS amps and does not have the mid-hump Tube Screamers are notortious for. It's one of the few OD's I found that actually was useful at low volume (overdrives are meant for amps already being pushed hard - that's why so many people don't seem to understand why they sound bad with a Twin turned up to "2"). Inexpensive, and might be worth a shot.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Hi Dave,
I'm jumping in even later. I use a RealTube 902 rack preamp in the effects loop of my Nashville 1000 to do exactly what you describe. By itself, it can sound thin, but it adds the contour that makes my Tele work with my Nash 1000. The richness of the 15" speaker combines with the thinness of the RealTube to sound very fenderish on the tele. Then I just switch out the effects loop to go back to steel.
The rack version offers bias and contour controls over and above treble mid and bass. Seems to give a bit more control over the tone compared to the foot pedal version, but yet zero audible distortion. (probably a little bit hiding in there, but it's a tube unit doing its thing...).
I use a Boss PSM5 on the front end as an AB switch between tele and steel. Two stomps and I'm changed over.
(edited to apologize for not reading about the reverb)
Sorry I didn't read that your reverb had quit. My idea won't work then.
-Paul

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

I like Paul's idea with the effects loop. Since I'm at work, I don't know if my NV112 has the capabilities to do this. Can I switch the effects loop on/off on it?
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

Eric Jaeger · From: Oakland, California, USA

Jumping in even later Smile

I've had good luck with a pedal Mesa used to make called a V-twin. Essentially a preamp in a box - gain, bass/mid/treble, output volume. Three switchable gain modes + bypass gives you four modes to play with.

Around here I'd think they'd be pretty easy to find.

-eric

Paul Arntson · From: Washington, USA

Hi Michael,
As I understand it, the 112 has the same front end as the 1000, so it should act exactly the same. The RT902 has a good bypass switch (I think also able to be foot actuated with the right stomp switch) on the front panel, so you can cut it out that way, too.

(edited to add )
I think the V twin could be a good one too. Those are magnificent sounding pedals. Much fuller than the RealTube.
The trick with either would be to run the volume all the way up and control the volume with the gain so it runs at minimum distortion. You could also substitute a 12AU7 for the stock 12AX7 in the RT902 to get a little cleaner signal, although I didn't find it necessary. (I have the foot pedal version where I tried the 12AU7 and it is good, but the foot pedal doesn't have the bias and contour controls.)
I get the most Fendery sound by setting the controls at:
Drive = 2
Contour = 7
Bias = 8
Master = 10
High = 9
Mid = 0
Low = 2

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