Do lead players affect Your tone?

Billy Murdoch · From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

Hi All,
I play a Zum thru' a SGBB,Hilton vol to a Pod XT and finally to a Nasville 112.
I am very satisfied with the end result and I have had several steel playing friends play my guitar which gives me the opportunity of listening "out front"The end result is good.
I notice often that when the lead guitar is playing,using effects such as chorus,tremelo or overdrive(usually at high volume)the tone of my steel is compromised and sometimes sounds thin.
Is it my ears being tricked by the Lead?
I know I will get good advice as always from this great Forum.
Best regards
Billy [/b]

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

[usually at high volume] Very Happy

Billy this is JMO, but it sounds to me like it's the old problem of a guitar player being to loud! If you came up to the same volume I doubt your steel would sound thin, but then every one else would have to turn up also.
My solution, and again JMO, turn that guitar player down and see if that helps. Wink

Larry
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George McLellan · From: Duluth, MN USA

I've noticed that if the bass is too close has more of an effect on the tone. I've played with the lead guitar through the same (Fender Twin Reverb) amp at low volumes at a practice and didn't have any problems or complaints. I set my own preferance for tone through what ever amp I do use and try to keep my amp as far away from anyone else's as practical. The room you may be working will also have an effect as per floor, ceiling and wall coverings.

Geo

Duane Becker · From: Elk,Wa 99009 USA

Lead players not only effect my tone, but my hearing too. I always insist on being on the opposite side of the stage from the lead guitar player. Personally I dont like lead guitar, maybe from the experience of having them always playing too loud. Duane Becker

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

Stan Paxton · Posted 14 Jan 2007 1:56 pm

I have to agree with Bill, I think its what my ears perceive. Have had the same experience with small cramped stage space, and drums way loud, along with keyboard way loud at the same time. Have had people from audience say the steel sounds did not change out there; it sure did seem to where I was. Don't know what the answer is, when the set up is such as that.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

only when I am playing Lead on the Tele' thru the Hot Rod Deville...cranked up.... Sad

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

first off, a lot of bands here that think they're playin Country have guitar players that don't even know how to pick !
Secondly, these guitbox players use tons of distortion & windmill effects that really sound bad
& they think it's great
these guys really make me appreciate havin' a clear sound w: a bit of reverb
i usually walk on these bands after 2 try outs

jerry harkins · From: kingsland tx

Not only lead players but the bass also can thin out your sond and make you sound out of tune. Most times there's no place to go if the bass is on one side and the guitar is on the other side of the stage. I would rather be by the bass than the guitar though.
I've noticed that if I'm next to the bass and he's a little to loud then it sucks all of my low end away and my steel sounds thin.
As far as the lead guitar goes, most that I have played with do play to loud and I don't like to get into a volume war because I feel that the tone is lost after a certian DB. Why do we put up with the guitar players that think they have to be louder than everyone else and can't show any respect for other musicians?
IMO we should send them packing and find a real musician who can see the picture. Idea

OK now I feel better!

Roger Francis · From: kokomo,Indiana, USA

I have been playing with the same guitar player for 20 years, Tely and all the effects, and for a long time i was having the same problem, the only thing i could do after a lot of discusions on volume was to move my amps closer to me to the point of i can allmost use them as a back rest ( allmost anyway) so i can hear me first when i'm playing. I know thats a little hard on the ears but atleast when i play i've got MY tone first. The bass player affects my tone somewhat and he is on the other side of the stage but 90% of the time he don't

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

lead guitar players don't affect my tone, but they sure affect my emotional equilibrium when they are too loud.

There's absolutely no reason for that kind of excessive volume. But try to ask some of these guys to turn down to a level that's below the point of pain, and they act like you're asking them to cut off their (body part that's not mentioned on a family forum such as this.)

In the almost 30 years since I bought my Music Man amp, I never had the occasion to turn the volume up to 10, till 3 months ago. I was playing somewhere, and the rhythm guitar player was so loud, I not only had to turn the amp to 10, I set it 2 feet away from me, and I still could not hear myself over his louder-than-a-jet-plane strumming.
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Danny Letz · From: Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540

I have the problem when my steel is not loud enough. My hearing seems to lose its fidelity. When I kick it on up, the sound clears up, but I refuse to be the one playing too loud. What's really fun is to be set up beside a fiddle that is playing a little off pitch. You're constantly struggling with bar position. You don't know which part of the band to be in tune with. This is one more reason to respect Jake Hookers band. Three fretless instruments playing in perfect tune. I guess this is what seperates the pros from guys like me.

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

When you're listening to the band from out front, does the mix sound okay with just the guitar, or is the guitar sticking out like a sore thumb? I miss the old days when 6 string country guitarists played a simple Telecaster, with maybe a couple of effects and loved it. Nowadays I can't tell the difference between a Led Zepplin cover band and "country music".

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

Lets dont forget the fact that the guitar player and steel players are playing in generally the same register. Therefore the effect of soundwave cancellation comes into play. The placement of the guitar in relation to the steel amp has everything to do with what the ear percieves onstage. Moving the guitar player to the other end of the planet should suffice....hehe...
In the front mix panning the guitar and steel to opposite mains is acceptable too...isnt it?
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Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Bands that have 2 or more six string guitars also play in the same register and have the same challange. That's not the problem. Like Jeff Newman said: "Know when to lay off". A good set of musicians know when to lay back, lay off, or even play in the lower range while the other lead instruments are featured. Everyone up there going full blast is a formula for chaos.

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Billy, Good idea to set up on the opposite side of the lead man. Last band I was in, looking out to the audience, I was on the extreme right with the bass player to my left, then drums, then lead guitar. I made sure I had my amp slightly to the right of me, not "too" far behind.
Personally, I love to work with a lead man, so I can "hold back" and not "overplay" and then take 8 bars each on the instrumental breaks. Needs a good lead man who understands how to work with a steel and "Share" Smile

Cheers,

Micky Byrne England www.mickybyrne.com

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

It's getting harder and harder to find lead players that know when to and when not to play. I backoff and let lead players take there rides and then I expect the same but that's always the case. Endings is another place where lead players like to blast away. I don't take the BS anymore. If a lead player wants to play all night on top of the steel, then at the end of the night, I'll pack up my equipment and go play somewhere else. I much rather play steel shows anyway. The extra money is nice but I mainly play for enjoyment these days!

Billy Murdoch · From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

Many thanks to everyone for your input,the information and advice is tremendous.
Everything is relevant to my situation,correcting that situation is not so easy though.
We play the same pub venue each weekend and space is at a premium so we are sitting on top of one another so to speak,we have,not one,but two lead players.Both players are very good but one of them tends to want all the intros and lead breaks and is on the highest volume,unfortunately his amp is set at(my)head height,just in front and to my right
Having said all that,we do have a good level sometimes but once the Ego cuts in ........well you know the scene.
Best regards
Billy

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Many of these guys also play loud right over the vocals too!

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · From: Ayrshire, Scotland

Billy. Tell the folks about the drunk guy who tripped and fell and got his head stuck between the pedal rods.

Shit! I've just spoiled your story. Wink

Sorry.

Arch.

Dung? I printed shyte without the `e`.
Woo-Hoo! Subverted a moderator....for the moment. Rolling Eyes

Chris Allen Burke · From: Signal Hill, CA

I'm all for anything until it becomes non-musical. Vol, out-of-tune etc.
CAB

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

Steel Players, for the most part have a hard time with the volume I think for several reasons.

We sit under the cymbals and close to the drums, we sit closer to our amp, we sit closer to the lead amp, we sit close to the bass rig, the monitors are closer to us as well not to mention any fiddle players or keyboard players rig.

When it comes to sound pressure levels, steel players get the brunt of it most times than not.

If you're playing a big show, things may be different but most of us play the night clubs where the stage was an after thought from the genius club owners and rarely tons of space creating a volume issue. Then, what about the acoustics of the room and EQ'ing the PA? So many things to think about and deal with.

Gabriel Stutz · From: Chicago, USA

I had that problem with a guitar player that was just let go. It was almost like he was playing in the exact opposite phase to my steel, and he made completely disappear at times. It was very strange, but it was more the volume and the fact that he was afraid to play without the overdrive turned up. I was on him all the time to clean up his sound, and he never did. I also play in another band with me on steel, an upright bass player, and a fiddle fiddle, and it is hard to find an agreeable frequency between the 3 of us. I will say the problem seems less pronounce when we are fiddle-free. I just try to lay out as much as I can when she's playing to avoid any obvious and horrible conflicts, ufortunately, she doesn't always do the same during my fills....

Gabriel

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Lead Player? does that mean the guitar player only plays solos?and fills? and doesn't know any chords?or have any rhythm chops?ala Reggie Young,or Steve Cropper?Cornell Dupree?Maybe that's the problem.You should know how to comp behind the Steel Guitar player without getting in his,or her way.You should know what chord voicings are going to clash with the Steel.When the Steel Guitar is soloing you should be making it comfortable for him,or her without throwing them off..and you gotta give the ego a vacation...that's my take on it.
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Tony Russell · From: North of England

I got no problem, I am the lead guitar when I don't play steel! Seriously though - all members of a good band LISTEN to each other. If you don't do that, you're not a team player, and deserve to be dropped. You can only contribute (and that should be your aim) to the overall sound - no competitions, whether it be volume or "hot licks" or whatever! Regards, Tony.

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