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Topic: C Diatonic |
Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2006 10:49 am |
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I have a question concerning the C diatonic tuning. It originally went as follows:
E
D
C
B
A
G
F
E
Byrd dropped the D string as it got in his way and required an eight string guitar. I can see how it would be in the way, but I am thinking of putting the high D string on as the last note, so I will have the standard C diatonic but with the D note out of the way except for when I need it, like this:
E
C
B
A
G
F
E
D (high)
Byrd said to not add any strings to this tuning just because you have an eight string guitar, that it did everything it needed to do. However, this note would be very helpful (especially for chiming) and he originally had this note in the tuning.
I know I should just do what works best for me and my playing, but I would like some insight from C diatonic players as to the tuning and how useful you see having this note would be. Should I keep it straight for now and experiment with this string when I have my act together a little bit more on theis tuning (I just strung it up a few days ago and can't get a thing out of it right now)?
Curious, CS |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2006 11:16 am
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I think the high D is a very useful note in this tuning.
I believe that Jerry Byrd's reason for not using a D string was that he couldn't reconcile the fine tuning of the D string with the just intonation that he always used. In other words, he couldn't get the D in tune with both the G string and the A string. Note this is the same dilemma that E9 players often have with the F# strings.
A meantone tuning is one solution to this problem.
Another solution would be to make the high D string number one as a lot of C6 players do on pedal steel. That makes it easy to slant the bar a tiny bit to get the sweet just-intonated sound.
Or you could order the strings like this:
D
B
E (highest)
C
A
G
F
E
which also allows you to keep some habits you may already have from C6 and E9 playing. |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2006 11:57 am
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Ooh, I like that! I'm gonna stick with the traditional Byrd tuning for now, but I this chromatics on top tuning will definitely be played with soon...
CS |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Mar 2006 11:51 pm
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Chris;
Definitely put the (D) in the #1 spot and tune it to strings #4 & #6 for a G-chord. For a 10-string C-Diatonic this works well also. From bottom to top: (C/C#)–E–F–G–A–B–C–E–D–F. Sometime when you have time, call and stop over and check out my C-Diatonic Derby, if you don't bend the strings! ha~ha! I can't say the word here, but; it's not a lap-steel¡¡¡¡ Oops! 
------------------
“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
n.t.s.g.a. #90
’05 D–10 Derby
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Apr 2006 7:24 am
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Although I do own a 10-string lap steel, I'm still having trouble choosing between the D note on top and a C (on the bottom) for use on my 8-string steel. Of course,on my 10-string I use both. Some of the things you would use the "D" for, can be found 2 frets down, but its not a perfect substitute. With a "C" note on the bottom, you have a perfect 6-string C6th tuning to fall back on while learning the diatonic positions and scales,but that "D" note on top sure is nice also.
Just my $0.02.
~~W.C.~~ |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 4 Apr 2006 8:47 am
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| If I were gonna try this, I'd want to try the B and D out of sequence on top, and maybe the F out of sequence on the bottom. I'm not sure I understand the D just intonation problem. As John says, it works out tuned as the 5th of a G chord, um...but not as the root of a Dm chord...I guess that's where the problem is (pedal steels dodge that bullet by tuning the C pedal stops). |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2006 9:14 am
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| Quote: |
| I'm not sure I understand the D just intonation problem. |
In the Key of C ... with the root C tuned "straight up" ...
D = the 2nd ... +4 cents
G = the 5th ... + 2 cents
A = the 6th ... - 16 cents
The "issue" is ...
If the D is in tune with the G ... the D (5th of G) would be +2 cents sharp of G ... as it is here ... ie ... +4 cents.
But ...
The D is not in tune with the A in the above example.
To be in tune with the A ... the D (4th of A) would need to be -2 cents flat of that A ... or ... -18 cents ... in the above example .
You can't have the 2nd, 5th & 6th ... in the same tuning ... beatless ...
That D is either tuned to G ... ie ... +4 cents.
Or ...
That D is tuned to A ... ie ... -18 cents.
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 4 Apr 2006 12:11 pm
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| Yep, that's a problem. The work around (other than a slight slant) is to use the relative minor grip up 5 frets for the II minor, or to use the tonic grip up two frets for the II major (this is how, even with fixed strings, a steel guitar can get sweet JI chords that a JI keyboard cannot). It is only in trying to match the D as the root to A as the 5th that there is a problem. The D works fine as the 2 in a scale, or as the 9th, or as the minor 7th in the Em7 chord. Are there other problems I'm missing? |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 5 Apr 2006 12:29 pm
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| If I were putting it on an 8-string, I'd add a low C# instead of a high D. I've heard Bobby Black play that tuning and it is awesome for big band swing. |
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