Carter Starter

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

I need a LIGHTWEIGHT guitar to take to some gigs and leave my MSA d-10 classic at home.Can't afford 2 or 3 grand for a top dollar guitar,If anyone that has a Carter Starter can give me some information ,such as mainly if it tunes and stays in tune,pedal action,and durability.I saw Bobbe demostrate one on his site,BUT he could string up a two by four with haywire and make it sound good.Remember I would be useing it on gigs,would it handle that.Thanks.

Sidney Ralph Penton · From: Moberly, Missouri, USA

well i had a carter starter and it kept in tune very well. the bad points of a carter starter is it don't have adjustable legs. it sounds good but i don't believe it sounds as good as a pro model. i had a carter starter and a carter u 12 at the same time and the u 12 sounded some what better than the starter. if it was me i would do one of two things. have you thought about getting a cheaper psg. (msa etc.) there are plenty of psg's out there for 1200 to 1500 range. the second thing is i also have a bad back and a bad leg. i use a 2 wheel dolly. there are some dollies that convert to 4 wheel those are nice also. when i play out someplace there is usually someone there to help me also. it takes 3 trips to get all my stuff inside but its a lot easier on my back.
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zum SD10 peavy session 400 peavy XR600G
if its not a zum steel it isn't real
just trying to steel for the Lord>

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

These are fine steels but just be aware that the copendent is FIXED.

If your PRO Steel has some knee changes on it that you use often they may NOT be available on the Starter.

I too am considering leaving my D10 at home at getting an S10 , but for my purposes the setup must be exactly the same.

t

Ernie Pollock · From: Mt Savage, Md USA

I would at least take the time to investigate the GFI Economy models

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Ernie Laughing

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

What Ernie said. Tony, Happy New Year. I got a Carter Starter back in November and it's an OK guitar. Value for the money! I switched the right moving knees with no trouble. I was used to lowering my Es on the right knee & raising them with my left. I wouldn't reccomend that you rush out and do this, but in my case I felt I had a valid reason and I was able to do it easily. Bud Carter
is a great designer/builder! OOPS! and I should also mention he's a great person & player!

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

Charles,
I borrowed one sometime back while my guitar was apart on my bench. It sounded fine to me in that noisy bar, and played pretty well. The pedals were fine, but seemed like the knee levers had some slack in them. I put some ash trays under the back legs for adjustment and done my "thang" that night. Very Happy

I even got a couple of compliments on the guitar [don't remember if I got any], but it is a fixed copedant, what you see is what you get! JMO, but it's a nice little guitar for the $$.

Larry
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

Charles,

I recently picked up a '75 MSA S10 on Ebay for $550. It's what they called the semi-classic model. Mica finish, 3floor/2knees, stays in tune great. Everyone tells me these old MSAs are bullet proof. I'm guessing that the single sized frame is lighter than your double MSA, but probably still heavier than a newer carter or GFI student type. The dolly idea sounds good...having a "roadie" sounds better!

Good luck!

Mark Eaton · Posted 6 Jan 2007 7:58 am

Charles, Matt Wilson has in the for sale section a black,1992, GFI SD-10 3/4 for I believe $825.

For what you are looking for, I would run, not walk, to buy this steel!
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Mark

Sonny Priddy · From: Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.

Check Out Bobbie Seymour. (615 -822- 5555) At Steel guitar Nashville. SONNY.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I bought one a few years back, and it's now boxed up in storage. Yes, it stays in tune. The pedals are just L bar: they don't look or feel right. The pedal bar bends when you press the pedals. The instrument just doesn't sound right to me. The legs aren't adjustable so you'll need to buy one of their extender sets unless you're short. You can't add extra pedals. All that having been said, it's good value for money, but you get what you paid for. I would never buy another one.

The best thing in the box is the video tutorial, which is very good and applies to any E9 instrument.

Justin Griffith · From: Taylor, Texas, USA

Jody Cameron played one a while after a back injury and it sounded fine.

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

There's no such thing as a 'fixed tuning', guys. I recently converted two Starter's to a 'short' universal for two local players. The slots in the stop plate need to be either milled out or carefully hacksawed and filed if you want to lower those particular strings. You may also have to add a balance spring or two. On one of these guitars I even reversed the pedals from the factory Emmons setup to the Day setup. One guitar has the E changes on the left knee. . .the other I put them on the right knee. The major problem is that the bellcranks are welded or brazed to the shafts and cannot be relocated for alignment with the changer. Just switching shafts around until you get the closest alignment possible will do the trick. On both of these guitars I added 101 Nylon wear pads to the knee lever reversing levers to eliminate the metal-to-metal friction as found on the factory setup. I would take either one of these guitars out right this minute and play a gig with them. There is an inherent cabinet drop issue, but tuning all raises a bit flat takes care of that, and as for tone, just pull some of the highs off of your amp settings. I played one of these for the owner when he picked it up at my shop using a Boss RV-3 into a little Peavey Backstage Plus w/12" speaker. He was amazed!!
PRR

David Anderson · From: St. Louis, MO, USA

I don't know if you'll find that the Starter is a sutable substitute for your MSA. I work at retail store that handles both the Starter and the Magnum, own a MSA S12 Classic, and I too am trying to figure out a substitue for gigs due to the weight issue.

I guess it's subjective, but I would probably save a up for a better light weight steel than the Starter. It's a great steel for the money, and has a good tone and stays in tune. I think it sounds as good as the Magnum personally, but remember I am new at this.I don't think I would take it over my MSA for gigs. I'd keep my eye on the forum. I see lots of good deals on used steels here.

Dav

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

Thanks guys for the input,I'm kind of leaning to the GFI economy model,any one have any input on this one.

Casey Lowmiller · From: Kansas

Paul,

How hard do you think it would be to add a "Franklin Pedal" to a Carter-Starter???

I would like to experiment with the "Franklin Pedal" but don't want to buy another steel until I'm more sure of my abilities.

Please keep in mind that I no little about psg mechanics but I am fairly mechanically inclined.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

I don't entend to change anything ,I thing the GFI has 3-3 I can play what I'm capable of on this.

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

I've got to ask a real dumb question here. I know Paul Franklin used to drop his 5th B to an A at one time. Now I hear he does that and pulls his 6th G# down to F# along with it. I haven't kept up with his innovations but know that he does come up with some sweet-sounding pulls on his guitar. Just what change(s) did you want to add to the guitar? The Carter Starter uses a 'flip-flop' changer and it is really capable of doing a lot more than a conventional scissors changer. The only drawback is that they will not sell you additional parts for a Starter unless the original parts are/were defective. . .you have to do whatever it is you're going to do with the parts you already have OR make the parts you need. Fortunately I have been able to work within those guidelines. I did have to custom-make two KL stops for one customer as he was always sitting down behind the guitar and bending everything forward! I merely made him two beefier mounts for those two KL's. I would say that you could easily install about any 10-string setup imagineable on a Starter including some complex splits. I don't believe the Starter was ever intended to be any more than just a 'starter' guitar, but once the genie gets out of the bottle so to speak and guys start modifying them, the sky pretty much becomes the limit. That changer is well-designed and is similar to the Kline and even the very early Sho-Bud's. I'm kinda wondering when someone will convert a Starter to a full-blown C6th tuning. It CAN be done!! The two guitars that I recently converted belong to two people who have health issues and don't want to risk lugging around a heavy guitar. This little guitar is very light and does its job pretty well for what it is. I would personally opt for a GFI Student model or a used Pro I, but the Starter definitely holds its own against the so-called 'heavy-weights'. If people buy one expecting to be as well-made as a pro-model guitar, they'll be highly disappointed. It was never intended to be a 'pro' model guitar. If they look at the price tag, I think most would agree that it's a pretty good performer for the bucks spent.
PRR

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Just to add to my previous post, I did install the following setup on one of the two guitars mentioned before.
The tuning front-to-back is - -
F#,D,G#,E,B,G#,F#,E,B,G#
FP1 = B to C# on 5 and 9
FP2 = G# to A on 3,6,and 10
FP3 = E to F# on 4,Bto C# on 5
LKL = Splitting C# raise back to C on 5 and 9
LKR = B to D on 9
RKL = E to F on 4 and 8
RKR = E to D# on 4 and 8
I used all the parts that came on the guitar to achieve this and the guitar works very well. I did have to cut open the 'lower' slot on the stop plate to allow the pull back to C on 9. As they come from the factory, not all the slots are cut to allow a lower on all strings. That was the only modification work I had to perform on the changer. I made up an extra pullrod to raise 10 to A with FP2 and connected it to the bellcrank that pulls 6. The rod runs at a slight angle which is not desireable, but it got the job done and all three G#'s pull to A in tandem.
PRR

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

two thoughts come to mind, ok, three..

The Starter is fine guitar out of the box for it's intended purpose.

"FIXED" as in, you probaly cannot make changes without making Mechanical alterations first. Once you make alterations it is no longer FIXED.

Put the Franklin 5,6 and 10 change on your Steel. You will use it once you work those phrases into your vocabulary. My previous Steel did have the 5,6 and 10 lower Pedal, I didn't use it much, my current Steel has the same 5,6 and 10 lowers, I use it all the time. It just took seat time to work out the phrasing once I started studying them. You are not going to add these pulls and start playing 5,6 10 drop phrases that day or night. Add them to your Steel and study them . They will arrive. And when they do you will know it and so will your bandmates. I happen to think tht the 5,6 and 10 drops should be standard on every E9th Steel.

Fellow players, if you are playing a PRO Steel now, and are thinking about a second steel as a now and then GO TO Steel...be sure you understand that the entry level Starter type Steels are not intended to be PRO Guitars. They are manufactured for a different purpose.

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

Tony P.
This is off topic on the Starter, but I gotta say thanks for your thoughts and comments concerning the Franklin pedal. I have this change on my guitar now and was thinking about changing it, but now I think I'll do as you suggested and let it ride and see what comes from it. Very Happy

Larry
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

As I stated before I cannot afford a Pro model.And am leaning toward the gfi,but may still consider the Carter,I don't care about changing any thing on it ,with 3 and 2,you can still play Maj,Maj7th,9'th,Minor's,7'ths,Dim,and aug chords,No better than I play thats all I need.Would still like to hear some feedback on the GFI. Thanks.

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

Charles, a Carter Starter in not a 3 & 2.....it's a 3 & 4! Even better in my book! Charles, contact Ernie Pollack up in MD, I think he has a GFI economy model and pehaps could tell you the features. The Starter is a dbl raise/single lower changer, I know that, but I'm not sure about the GFI economy changer. What the changer can do is the limiting factor on a steel. Brian M, I picked up a used MSA like yours & discovered the changer was their regular Dbl raise/dbl lower, but the holes hadn't all been drilled. I did a sloppy job on it with a hand drill (I'm no machinist!) but it did work well for me!

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

Zumsteel stage one is another option if you are considering a economy model. I've tested both (Zum & Carter) and they are pretty much the same standard. However it's a big step down from a pro model.
Would a used S10 be an option?

Uffe

Ryan Gimpert · From: Detroit, Michigan, USA

Charles, check your mail. I've got a lightweight S-10 for sale.

Gary Shepherd · From: Fox, Oklahoma, USA

As noted, the Carter Starter copedent is fixed. But I'm sure it wouldn't be too much of a problem for a tinkerer to change/add to it.
_________________
Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000

www.16tracks.com

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